Would the gun grab situations where a manual safety made the difference been negated by a holster like a Safariland 070 or ALS ?
Would the gun grab situations where a manual safety made the difference been negated by a holster like a Safariland 070 or ALS ?
I used semi autos with safeties since age 14. For me they are an extension of my hand. I prefer them but can not advise professionals.
I'm relying on memory but the issue of officers killed due to failure to activate the manual safety has been discussed a lot over the years. IIRC, there is a picture of a "dead" officer in one of the Calibre Press books but research found it to be a staged photo.
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It is a most definite yes for my incident but it happened in 1992. Holster selection back then was mail order or a limited choice at the local hardware store. The holster I was using at the time was a Threepersons type that I had cut on and moded into a crossdraw. I don't think it was even for a 1911 gun either. There may have been something like that back then but as a civilian I don't think I would have made that choice anyway.Originally Posted by TheNewbie
Luckily it wasn’t a fatality but CPT E.R. Walt related an incident where an officer switched from a 1911 back to a revolver after forgetting to take the safety off in one of his books. I don’t remember if it was in Holloway’s Raiders or the Hall Street Shootout book.
ETA I found it, the account is from Det. Tom Sewell in the back of the Hall Street Shootout book.
“Less than two years after Hall Street, Detective Tom Sewell, who had been the lead detective on that case, would be shot in the chest while attempting to arrest a wanted, armed robbery suspect. It is a story best told in his own words: “On Father’s Day 1971 we hit an apartment on Live Oak to arrest a hi-jacker named Melvin Edward Morales. A lady friend of his told us that she had just left the apartment and that he was there alone. I was the first through the door and had my pistol (a .45 Colt Commander) in my hand with the safety off. I saw a figure asleep on the couch wrapped from head to toe in a quilt. When I pulled the quilt away the figure turned out to be a 15 year old girl. “I immediately put the safety back on and ran for the bedroom. As I got to the door Morales shot me in the chest. I tried to return fire but the pistol was on safe and I guess I was in shock because I forgot to take the safety off and just stood there trying to fire. Loyd Richey was in the bathroom next to me and I told him, ‘The son-of-a-bitch killed me’. Loyd replied, ‘Then get the hell back in the living room to die, you’re in the way.’ Anyway I sold that gun and bought a .357 revolver and never carried the .45 on duty again. Loyd managed to get a couple of rounds into Morales and he dove through a floor window head first, breaking his leg in the fall. His left arm was useless after that and after serving 12 or 13 years in the joint on a life sentence he was paroled during the prison crowding crisis, lived about 2 years and died.”
Last edited by sharps54; 10-19-2018 at 09:16 AM.
I second this question. For those like Doc or Mr. Dobbs that have seen safeties save lives, can we get clarification on the holster that was being used, or if the gun was already in hand?
Maybe, assuming the gun in question is secured in a holster at the time of the grab.
I know that I have had to clear a myriad of buildings and homes and always did so with the pistol in hand. I utilized a close compression hold and tried to never extend it around blind corners and such. With the addition of a pistol light policy, some tips and tricks had to be learned in classes and in the field to keep the gun close to my happy zone.
I have had to holster up pretty quick when finding felons in said houses/buildings and when they added pistol lights, I had to sort of re-learn my holster process as the TLR HL caused me to hang up on occasion. I try to never "speed holster" my weapons for the safety aspect of it all but I will freely admit that there are times where the re-holster is just a fraction of a second slower than my speed draw: because after all this time reading felon's body language and their eye movement has given me clues as to their next moves (flight or fight) and the pistol had to get stowed immediately. Cover officers handled that part while I handled the habius grabbus.
I never wanted to play tug-o-war with the sidearm.......and had plans to try to ditch the mag during the dance and attempt to eject or stovepipe the round if possible and go to a hideout piece. Or to soak up that one round and then hope that it was a survivable hit so that I could empty a hideout into the opponent. Plans for this.....plans for that.
I've never had to rely on those plans over the last 22 or 23 years....thank the Lord. Going full Viking when it was warranted prevented it and saved more felons than it truly harmed. Old school for sure but it worked well.
Now if my agency were to suddenly go to a manual safety sidearm they would give the customary 40 hour familiarization class and then hope for the best.......just like they did when we went from the SSIII holster to the hooded ALS variety. After a looooong time of carrying a SSIII, it took THOUSANDS of draws with this new rig to get comfortable with it to where I don't look like an idiot in Sim inservice and can get my first shot off respectable.
If they issued a 1911 tomorrow, it would take another 1000 draws including some shooting to get used to it again. I carried one back in the day and was used to it. I'd have to train hard to get those synapses firing again.
Worth what you paid for it........
Regards.
Last night I ordered the parts to convert my 1.0 9c to a thumb safety. Same as you, any future M&Ps bought with the idea of being anything but strictly a game or range gun will have the thumb safety.
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Like this one?
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...-22-sao-paulo/
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...p-full-videos/
Glock has also made G17/19/22 in the past with a crossbolt safety. Not good IME.
I have never tried the 1911 style thumb safety on the glock as this brazilian model shown, but it seems WAY better. Apparently is the same safety used in their MHS entry.
In both of the incidents I described the duty holster was a Safariland SSIII for a 3rd gen S&W carried on safe; however in both cases the pistols were out of the holster when the event occurred.
Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie
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