I know magazine safeties are unpopular but we have numerous cases of them saving lives, does anyone know of a case where having a magazine disconnect actually got someone hurt?
I know magazine safeties are unpopular but we have numerous cases of them saving lives, does anyone know of a case where having a magazine disconnect actually got someone hurt?
Sharps, I can only recall two of those. One in PNW; the long mag release button on the original Model 39 had bumped against the shank of the officer's holster, dislodging the magazine just enough that when he drew and attempted to fire, the chambered round did not discharge. I do not recall how severely the officer was wounded by the offender. S&W IIRC shortened the ejector rod button on the 39-2 thereafter.
Indiana: Officer draws and attempts to shoot a cop-killer with early Model 59. As he goes into Weaver stance, drumstick of support hand thumb hits mag release button and drops mag. Deputy wounded, but survived. S&W settled out of court and modified mag release spring of subsequent Model 59 series guns to approximately twice the strength of the first generation.
In my amateur opinion, a lot would also depend on how one trains to use the safety. A lot of shooters plan their safety use exclusively to work within their normal flat range draw stroke, and some of them later encounter problems with unusual situations (retention shooting etc.).Originally Posted by Speederlander
Retention, entangled, knocked down prone or supine, injured hand, off-hand draw due to any of the aforementioned factors, etc. My personal opinion is it's very doable to get to a 90-95% level, but very difficult to get to a 100% level. I know there's always some "but long guns...." and that's valid. However when engaging with a long gun in a civilian/LEO context you weren't surprised. You got the long gun because you knew an encounter was either imminent or at least probable. It's possible, and encouraged, to have your finger right next to and indexed on the safety release (but not touching in case of startle response, etc). I find the safety on a long gun, or a handgun that's out and being used for a search vs a reaction to incoming fire, to be simpler to master under trying circumstances.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
From age 15 I had complete access and use of a Walther P-38 fed with 9mm surplus. After it I had several 39/59 series Smiths and then numerous Beretta 92s. I never used their safeties except when decocking. My use was 100% civilian shooting. From the forum I learned that not everyone favors a safety, and some people may under stress fumble when employing one. If I were a trainer, I would prefer teaching the simplest pistol with the least number of controls and would stress weapon retention above all else.
Weapons retention is the reason I asked about magazine disconnects. My weapons retention skills are limited (LFI-2, Greg Ellifritz’s Groundfighting & ECQC) but being able to use the magazine release as a kill switch would have been great during the “inside the car” evolution of ECQC. I’d probably be more likely to carry two spare magazines with a magazine disconnect but it seems like it is worth considering if it is an option on a pistol you would carry anyway (which in my case, Glock, it isn’t).
Last edited by sharps54; 10-24-2018 at 01:11 PM.
I would think second weapon, not second magazine. Why continue to wrestle over what is now a small club? The officer in the aforementioned story with the Beretta let the younger, stronger guy "win" and while he was occupied with turning the pistol on the older, weaker officer the officer had made distance and drew his BUG.
Sorta around sometimes for some of your shitty mod needs.
Despite several years now shooting Glocks and M&Ps comfortably, I confess that since I grew up shooting and carrying a Beretta, I am still most at home and comfortable with a DA/SA safety-equipped gun. I am not an operator and I am not perfect. A safety gives me a little wiggle room to be human. I still get the heebie jeebies on occasion from my no-safety Glocks and M&Ps.
I still carry no-safety guns primarily due to a combo of other features and considerations, but I never feel quite as secure as I do with a type-F 92 series or PX4.
State Government Attorney | Beretta, Glock, CZ & S&W Fan
I was thinking more in the case a magazine got dislodged accidentally but at that point it wouldn’t matter if you had a magazine safety or not. In the case of a fight for the weapon of course you are correct, dump the magazine and let go of the pistol. While he is fiddling with it you move on to another option.
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