Best woods ammo for Ti cylinder .357 N frame?

[OlongJohnson]

This thread is mostly not about terminal ballistics.

This thread is about having reasonable woods-walking power (pigs, canines, felines, larger ungulates, and yes, black bears) while not killing the titanium. Hence, posting in Revolvers. Mods, feel free to move over to the Ammo sub-forum if more appropriate.

My understanding of flame cutting is that lighter bullets in magnum loads promote the problem in two ways. Lighter bullets will use more powder to achieve a given pressure level. That's more mass and volume of burning gas. Shorter bullets travel less distance before exposing the cylinder gap and thus cylinder face to the charge gas. Also, being lighter and eventually reaching higher speed, they begin accelerating faster. Combining the two previously stated problems, heavy loads with light bullets expose the cylinder gap to more burning powder, starting relatively earlier in the burn.

The opposite of that would be a longer, heavier bullet, loaded to lighter or midrange pressure with a faster-burning powder, so there is less total powder involved and combustion is closer (% basis) to completion when the back of the bullet finally exposes the cylinder gap. Heavier bullets will tend to be better for the larger ungulates and predators. Finally, since we happen to be discussing N frames, recoil is less of an issue than with J-frames.

Is that on the right track, or is there something I've failed to consider/understand?

Has anyone here done load development work along these lines?

Would a flash-suppressed powder, if one appropriate for .357 loads can be found, tend to help with flame cutting?

[Tom Duffy]

I'd like some input to this, as well. My 986 9mm has 5,000 rounds though it with no evidence of cylinder etching whatsoever. I realize that a 9mm isn't in the same class as a .357 at all. S&W's manual says not to use bullets weighing less than 120 grains. I wouldn't use any hot boutique ammo either. A Speer 158 Gold Dot is supposed to be a real penetrator. I use the 140 grain Vital Shock from Federal but with a steel cylinder. I didn't know there was a titanium cylindered N-frame. What are you shooting?

[JAH 3rd]

I see you listed a number of critters that you want an effective load to protect you from. Since black bear is on your list, for me, that would be the last critter I would want to run up against, an effective load for that animal is the starting point. I am sure others more versed on black bear loads will chime in. I suspect Buffalo Bore ammo would be high on the list, but that is just a guess.

I have a S&W J-frame with a titanium cylinder in .357 magnum. Just for fun I shot 5 rounds of Winchester 140 gr. Silvertip ammo. Recoil was brutal, but I had to give it a whirl. Next was Speer Gold Dot .357 135 gr. Gold Dot. You could tell you lit off a magnum, but the recoil was tolerable, not light, but tolerable. I would describe it as a medium load. Finally I tried Winchester Ranger (RA38B) 130 gr. 38 +P ammo. The recoil in that round is quite noticeable too. That is the round I decide to use for carry.

As far as cleaning the cylinder, I use a CLP on a patch and that is it. Then a dry patch to remove any excess CLP. Nothing abrasive for cleaning the cylinder. This technique has served me well. I am not one who has to get all discoloration off the cylinder.

[OlongJohnson]

I didn't know there was a titanium cylindered N-frame.

There's the 329 PD in .44M, and a lot of "practical" shooters prefer Ti cylinders in their 625s shooting .45ACP. Most common .357 is the 327 PC, which is a giant snub with a 2.5" barrel. Darryl posted a pic of two that he has a few weeks ago. About ten years ago, they did one run of 327 PDs, which is an 8-shot, .357 version of the 329 PD. In my mind, it's a far more logical 25-oz gun.

I'm fully versed in the bear threads that have gone around here the past few years, as well as GJM's USP.45 and Lehigh Penetrator threads. The topic of maximizing the service life of a Ti cylinder through ammo selection/creation wasn't discussed in those threads.

[jtcarm]

You’re probably fine so long you avoid lightweight flamethrower rounds, like under 140 grains.

Wish to heck they’d put them in more steel revolvers, like the 627.

[OlongJohnson]

Where the Ti cylinders seem to be most sought after and successful, in my reading at least, is in the .45 ACP speed shooters. The lighter cylinder is easier to get spinning and the notches don't peen as quickly as with the big steel cylinder. And you can make power factor with very little powder behind a .45 ACP bullet, so nobody is talking about flame cutting.

The 329 PD probably gets by just because nobody really wants to shoot .44M loads out of a 25-oz gun very many times.

I suspect they would have a much bigger problem with people getting gas erosion if they built a lot of Ti-cylindered .357s, especially with steel frames to soak up the recoil of heavy loads. Given how many you see in J-frames, it would almost certainly be an epidemic.

Hmmm... That almost has me thinking of sending my incoming toy back to S&W to get a stainless cylinder fitted preemptively.

[03RN]

I'd be content with standard 158 JSP.

[oregon45]

The Hornady 180 XTP is an excellent bullet; you might try it over H4227 powder. I use 4227 in my .357 Maximums because it causes less flame cutting and erosion than H110/W296 but still produces similar velocities.

[scott]

As long as you stick to mid to heavy bullets and are careful about cleaning, Ti cylinder life shouldn't be a problem.

[jtcarm]

Where the Ti cylinders seem to be most sought after and successful, in my reading at least, is in the .45 ACP speed shooters. The lighter cylinder is easier to get spinning and the notches don't peen as quickly as with the big steel cylinder. And you can make power factor with very little powder behind a .45 ACP bullet, so nobody is talking about flame cutting.

Not so much since USPSA started allowing 8-shot revolvers.

I inquired with S&W recently and was told they no longer make Ti cylinders in .45 ACP.

Prior to the 929, a lot of USPSA shooters had their 627s fitted with 327 cylinders.