Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 24

Thread: Arresting sight (dot) movement at the end of the draw stroke.

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Jamie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    After a suggestion by Ernest Langdon two or three years ago, I added a compressed deceleration at the end of a direct presention draw, and it is consistently faster and more accurate. Rob Leatham teaches the same concept doing (horizontal) transitions.
    I think that "compressed deceleration" is demonstrated in some of the videos you posted. You're incredibly fast on your drawstroke but you seem to start slowing the extension about 2/3's of the way to full extension. I just didn't know what to call it...
    I can see where the "doorbell" analogy could apply there.

    As language often structures thought...I'll be adding this concept ,"compressed deceleration", to my dry fire practice.

    Great info as always folks.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie View Post
    I think that "compressed deceleration" is demonstrated in some of the videos you posted. You're incredibly fast on your drawstroke but you seem to start slowing the extension about 2/3's of the way to full extension. I just didn't know what to call it...
    I can see where the "doorbell" analogy could apply there.

    As language often structures thought...I'll be adding this concept ,"compressed deceleration", to my dry fire practice.

    Great info as always folks.
    Pure time, it is .10 faster than crashing out to extension, but the big gain is in accuracy.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Dryfire: Stand right up to a target or a wall. Draw your gun and touch the muzzle to the target. Don’t worry about trigger or sights. The gun shouldn’t hit the target. Touch it.

    Just put the gun on a spot on the target. Focus on relaxation. Next, add a timer.

    You should start to feel how tension is your enemy. Relaxation will produce the fastest times.

    Now you can step back and confirm your technique with sights.

    Repeat.
    I like this concept ALOT. I too suffer from sudden deceleration trauma at the end of the presentation. 90% sure it’s the presentation and not the trigger manipulation anymore. Will add this to my routine. Thanx

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Jamie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Knoxville, TN
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Pure time, it is .10 faster than crashing out to extension, but the big gain is in accuracy.
    I can see where this would definitely be of benefit to me. Kinda like taking your time fast...
    I spent the past 30 minutes working this in dry fire and recorded myself doing so. The camera keeps me honest with myself and I see I have a lot more work to do. I'm a technotard bumping 65 yrs old but thankfully the modern phones makes this easy(ish). Without the compressed deceleration I would catch myself muzzle dipping, just a bit, but it's obvious my shots would have gone a bit low if I broke the shot at the end of my extension.
    I plan to work this daily and try it live fire Friday (range day).

    Thank you @Clusterfrack. I also did several reps of "ringing the doorbell". That was/is very helpful.

    I appreciate the shared knowledge and advice here.

  5. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Hickory NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Dryfire: Stand right up to a target or a wall. Draw your gun and touch the muzzle to the target. Don’t worry about trigger or sights. The gun shouldn’t hit the target. Touch it.

    Just put the gun on a spot on the target. Focus on relaxation. Next, add a timer.

    You should start to feel how tension is your enemy. Relaxation will produce the fastest times.

    Now you can step back and confirm your technique with sights.

    Repeat.
    Quote Originally Posted by UNM1136 View Post
    Ron Avery in his videos mentions that your press out needs to be contrlled, like you are going to use your muzzle to press a doorbell. This is a little counterintuitive, as many of us train to get the gun out like our life depends on it. Throwing the gun out like that causes it to bounce around when it comes to a sudden stop.

    pat
    Quote Originally Posted by John Hearne View Post
    I used to get a full firing grip at position 3 - where my hands merge. I've found that if I fully establish by support hand grip at the end of extension, it seems to dramatically reduce the "earthquake" at the end of the pressout.
    Applying these techniques in my dry fire I noticed a considerable decrease in dot movement at the end of the draw stroke. Now I just need to Myelinate on it for a while.

  6. #16
    Something hard to wrap your head around is moving slower, at the end, causes you to be faster. If you consider that the goal is to break an accurate shot early, not just get your arms extended fastest, it makes sense.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Illinois
    I have trouble getting that ingrained myself...Gabe refers to it in a fashion I was able to relate to as a martial artist. That the correct draw is fast but soft in the end, like Kung Fu, not fast and hard at the end like an isshin-ryu karate punch.

    Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

  8. #18
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    ABQ
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I like that doorbell analogy.

    Also, it may be time to retire the term “press out” from our vocabulary because it implies a straight line trajectory of the sights toward the target. I don’t do that, and many (most?) top shooters don’t either.
    I learned to press out from TLG...If you watch videos from John McPhee, he seems to be a believer, too. Now, we can argue L-shaped draw, J-shaped draw, and 4 point draws, and I think video analysis can be revealing. It was an improvement to me.

    When I got out of the Academy Weaver and 4 point draw were the rules of the day. Because. I was running a TDA Sig 229 in .40, and a LT told me that there should be no pause between hitting full extension and the gun going off. Worked on that a couple of years. My good friend and mentor gave me the Ron Avery "Secrets of a Professional Shooter on VHS. I left that dept about the time my mentor did, and he went back while I didn't. So I missed out on him forming USPSA teams with department provided ammo and funds. I also missed him making GM in several categories...I do pick his brain whenever I can, when his schedule as full time Special Investigations/Special Services supervisor in the State's second largest city, and his second job as a sponsored USPSA shooter, and my mandatory overtime and family support issues allow one of us to make a four hour drive. Been a good 6 years or so since we were able to shpot together.

    It seems to me, like everything else out there that your overall goal drives the gear train, and both effect technique. It has been a long time since I have analyzed what top shooters do, as kids and a small department' cop salary is not conducive to training, traveling, and shooting as much as I like. Once we get Mrs.1136 studen loans paid off, kids out of braces, and kids out of private school, that should change.


    We also frequently use fanny packs, too, so there's that.

    pat
    Last edited by UNM1136; 10-20-2018 at 09:10 AM.

  9. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    East Greenwich, RI
    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    Something hard to wrap your head around is moving slower, at the end, causes you to be faster. If you consider that the goal is to break an accurate shot early, not just get your arms extended fastest, it makes sense.
    Do you find this more an issue with a lighter pistol, such as a Glock vs a metal frame TDA. I find I really need to make a conscious effort to decelerate with the Glock or it bounces around at extension. For me, this is much less an issue with a 226. I “think” it’s the lighter weight and as a result it’s moving faster causing more of a sight jump if you crash to full extension.

  10. #20
    Inhale on the backswing, exhale as the club goes forward. We call this a forced respiratory pause. Or if anyone prefers the "cool guy" term you can use "combat breath."

    Many people gulp air or hold their breath when drawing fast or trying to speed up their draw. This inflates the lungs and creates a lot of tension in the upper chest area and increases overall body tension especially in the arms and shoulders. Also increases heartbeat.

    Instead, inhale a quick breath as the draw starts and exhale during extension. This alleviates body tension and creates a calmer presentation as the pistol decelerates and comes to a stop. Just like a precision rifle shot, On a pistol draw I oxygenate then calm the body before firing.

    If you are already doing it great, but for the air gulpers and breath-holders, they may see a lot of tremors if they draw quickly and remain at full extension. Forcing out the air can dramatically increase first shot hit percentages in a high stress moment almost automatically once they ingrain it. btw, don't forget to continue breathing.
    Last edited by Surf; 10-27-2018 at 11:11 PM.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •