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Thread: Opinions on transferable select fire options

  1. #1

    Opinions on transferable select fire options

    I’be been looking at purchasing...something...for a while now, but am finally in a position to pull it off.

    My initial knowledge of pricing etc is about ten years old, and...needless to say, I was shocked when I started looking again a few months ago. No more $6k Uzis, that’s for sure.

    Given the market at this point, what’s the best bang for the buck, at a price point under, say, $20k?


    Here’s what I’ve been seeing:

    Uzis are 12-14. I don’t know much about them (other than that they suppress REALLY well..) and got confused by the different options - registered receivers, bolts, sears...??

    Reising - looks like a pretty cool option, for under $10k. Not sure about parts availability or shootability...

    FNC, can be found for ~15k. Again, unsure about parts.

    Thompson. If you look, you can find them for close to $20k. I do have trigger time on a Thompson, and while a really cool historical piece, I didn’t actually find it that interesting as a shooter.

    PPsH-41....can’t find any current listings. If I could find one for sale, I’d probably be all over that thing...

    Anything obvious I’m missing? Suggestions...?
    Last edited by Dan_S; 09-27-2018 at 08:14 AM.

  2. #2
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    Knowing what I know now, I'd absolutely spring a little bit more and get a transferable AR lower. They do dip into the high teens from time to time.
    -Multiple calibers very easily
    -Effective and easy to modernize (or build retro, whatever you want)
    -Tons and tons and tons and tons of support parts available
    -Next to zero wear possible of transferable part (with KNS anti-rotation pins)

    To answer your questions:
    UZI's - ideally you want a registered receiver that's a converted original IMI semi *without* the blocking bar. The perfect specimen will have been brought into full SMG spec with an SMG sized lower pin, no barrel restrictor ring, and an SMG spec front trunion.
    Second best is Vector (which is a Group Industries RR with a South African parts kit and generally better specs) third best is a complete Group Industries RR - the Group guns have a lot of issues with out-of-spec receivers but that can be brought back by a few folks out there, specifically Richard @ BWE parts is the Uzi guru that can fix these things. Overall recommendation is to avoid a unfired/LNIB gun because if it has issues, you'll be the first to discover it. There are also registered bolt guns - so the SMG open bolt is the transferable part, and you can set it up for different UZI hosts if desired but typically you'll find these in an IMI semi carbine host, and these will have the blocking bars and typically have Semiauto spec parts aside from the bolt and FCG, which isn't a deal breaker but it makes support parts from SMG parts kits less useful and it's more expensive if something goes wrong, and it also prevents caliber conversions. I prefer to keep my UZI in 9mm but I have parts for .45, and it's a lot of fun to shoot overall. But it's a bitch to modernize at all and mounting optics, etc is dodgy.
    Silencer HQ makes a wonderful adapter to run Silencerco cans from the UZI's barrel nut instead of needing a threaded barrel, and that'll be the next step for mine. I have a GI gun and there's a lot of little shit that doesn't really line up, but being a RR I used a genuine IMI parts kit from Apex to take care of most of the issues. The biggest thing is the trunion is somewhat out of spec so the gun only runs with the GI barrel, which has a much more generous throat going into the chamber vs SMG spec barrels. This can be fixed by the right guy for $$$$, but I'm fine for now. It gobbles up cheap steel case and loves it.

    Reisings absolutely suck. Seriously, they suck. Terrible sights, slow ROF, they look stupid, they're absolutely the least cool WWII gun on the planet. Magazines are rare and finicky, and no matter what it's a cheap ass open bolt .45 that Soldiers and Marines universally despised - tens of thousands are reported to have been dumped overboard ships in the Pacific just to justify getting M3 Grease guns or Thompsons or literally anything else.

    FNC's are awesome - but don't bother with an FNC sear that doesn't come with a host. It's a lot harder to find a semi FNC than you'd think and sometimes the weapon itself will be 3-4k due to demand from owners of registered sears that don't have a host. Support parts can be difficult to find, barrel replacements are a pain, but they run on just about anything and of course who doesn't love feeling like a reenactor of that shootout in Heat? But for the cost difference and support for the AR lower, I think the AR lower is the better buy for another ~$5k.

    Thompsons - they're a lot of fun to shoot, tons more fun than a Reising and everyone recognizes them and it's a hit at the range. But it's impossible to modernize them and barrel replacements/support parts are expensive and rare. Mags are somewhat expensive but still available, and they eat just about any .45 that can go bang. If you're into WWII history over modern use, and just want a fun range princess that'll get lots of love and grins from other shooters at the range, they're pretty cool. But I agree that after you've dumped an L-drum, there's not much more to it, so as a regular shooter it wouldn't be anywhere near my first pick.

    PPsH-41's are a shitload of fun to shoot. ~1200rpm cyclic rate and straight-up ejection means you can squirt out a burst of 10 rounds and the last round is fired before the first piece of brass hits the ground. Guaranteed shitload of fun on every range trip, and easily my favorite of all the WWII SMG's - but they're much like the Thompson in that parts can be scarce and expensive, there's little chance of modernization (the joes who FOB-fucked an EOtech onto a captured one nonwithstanding) but the real kicker is that the days of cheap 7.62x25 blasting ammo are long gone. Some folks have had success converting them to 9x19 with new barrels but that's pretty involved and the ROF reportedly goes down a bit, and finding an SOT FFL gunsmith that's willing to even attempt it can be difficult, from what I understand. If you get a chance to rent a post-sample PPsH-41, by all means do it! But it wouldn't be high on my list for another transferable.

    Now, here's the not-so-obvious thing. MAC-10's and M-11's enjoy the widest support out there when it comes to transferables. In factory original form they're rowdy-fast cycling and uncontrollable, basically useless for anything beyond 30-round grins and maybe ventilating an elevator full of surprised Colonels or something. But the LAGE uppers for the MAC's are absolutely fucking wonderful and bring that gun into the 21st century with optics and accessory options, much better handling, a controllable ROF, and a bunch of other neat options such as running Suomi drums and other cool stuff like that. This is why MAC's are starting to get into the 8k range. If you're not going to spring for an AR lower, I'd get a MAC and budget for a LAGE upper that suits your fancy to match.

    AC-556's are also coming down a bit in value because Ruger reputedly no longer works on them. However, there's a few operations that specialize in Mini-14 work that will rebarrel and otherwise maintain an AC-556 so if you find a good deal on an AC-556K it's not a bad call because good mags are still available, good aftermarket optic mounting options are available, and .22LR conversions exist that mostly work.

    Bottom line though, overall, I'd go with a registered AR lower with a ~$20k budget.
    With ~12-15k, AC556K
    ~8-12k, MAC with LAGE upper. I would consider the LAGE upper or a TASK slow fire upper absolutely mandatory to really enjoy the gun. Overall I prefer the MAC-10, ideally find one in .45 that's set up for grease gun mags, as it's relatively easy to caliber convert that to 9mm using STEN style magazines with an upper swap and magazine well insert, and of course set it up for a LAGE or whatever else.

    I love my UZI but I wouldn't get one at the current market value.
    Last edited by JRB; 09-27-2018 at 11:12 AM.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter CleverNickname's Avatar
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    While I'm not an expert by any means, I've owned a few machineguns and shot a few others over the years.

    My main question for you would be "What do you want to do with the gun?" Bust dirt clods? Shoot competitions? WWII cosplay?

    Of the guns you listed:

    Uzi: great guns (a Vector/Group RR is currently the only machinegun I own) but unless you really want an Uzi for some reason, a Mac is better value. You can convert between calibers as long as you get a registered receiver.
    Reising: boring to shoot, and you're stuck with .45 ACP.
    FNC OK, but for a little more you can get a full-auto AR15 conversion which has no spare parts issues. For example, burn out an FNC barrel and you're fucked, replacements are difficult to impossible to find. You're also stuck with 5.56mm.
    Thompson: I find thrm heavy and not as exciting as other guns, but if you're into WWII you may have different priorities. You're also stuck with .45 ACP.
    PPSH-41: no real opinion on these (I've never shot one) but I will note you're pretty much stuck with 7.62 Tok.

    If you just want a machinegun so you can shoot in full-auto and don't want a particular model for its history, then in my mind there's two options:

    1. a Mac of some flavor
    2. A Full-auto AR15 conversion

    A factory Mac is a dumb buzzgun, but plop a Lage slowfire upper on it and it's a completely different gun. Lage is also making a mag-fed 5.56mm upper that IIRC uses AR15 barrels.

    An M16 is a bit out of your price range, but as long as you don't care whether your gun has a pony on the side you can save a few k by getting an AR15 conversion. Parts are easy to find, caliber swaps are simple, and you can probably do a lot of gunsmithing on it yourself and not wait on some gunsmith halfway across the country who's one of three known-good gunsmiths who work on that model to work on your gun, like some other less-common guns. Sometimes I wish I still had mine.

  4. #4
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    Swedish K or a S&W 76? I had a buddy with a Swedish K. He loved it

  5. #5
    Ok. So, MAC, Ac556, or...a Swedish K...


    How do the Swedish Ks run, and how much....??

    AC556. I like them - A-Team episodes come to mind.... I hadn’t really thought much about them due to Maintanence issues. What shops can work on them....?



    I’m looking at a cool toy/investment, that I can play with occasionally. I have no real serious purpose for it, other than....I’ve wanted one for years, and....single...good job....bored.....


    I won’t buy an M16 that isn’t a Colt, so....that eliminates that option due to price.
    Last edited by Dan_S; 09-27-2018 at 03:55 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan_S View Post
    Ok. So, MAC, Ac556, or...a Swedish K...


    How do the Swedish Ks run, and how much....??

    AC556. I like them - A-Team episodes come to mind.... I hadn’t really thought much about them due to Maintanence issues. What shops can work on them....?



    I’m looking at a cool toy/investment, that I can play with occasionally. I have no real serious purpose for it, other than....I’ve wanted one for years, and....single...good job....bored.....


    I won’t buy an M16 that isn’t a Colt, so....that eliminates that option due to price.
    A friend of a friend had his AC556K rebarreled by Accuracy Systems one or two years back, which also does a lot of Mini-14 accurizing work too. They've got everything one needs to work on Mini-14 anything, apparently. The price was around $400 out the door for the new barrel installed, which isn't bad considering.

    Swedish K's are cool and run well - basically a refined STEN with a pistol grip, folding stock, and a magazine that points the right way and is much easier to load.
    But they have even less options for modernizing than the UZI and are less iconic, and magazines, etc are scarce. The UZI would be the clear winner for me in the price bracket as far as iconic, available support parts, and ease of maintenance/upkeep. Otherwise, get a MAC and LAGE combo IMHO.

    When buying a lower for the 3rd hole and the Form 4, the difference is the finish color and the rollmark and nothing more. But if that stupid pony rollmark is worth $10k to you, so be it. It is rather easy to go original factory Colt on every other component in a transferable lower.
    Last edited by JRB; 09-27-2018 at 04:37 PM.

  7. #7
    Pony roll mark to me equates to easily being able to unload the thing down the road. Maybe I’m totally wrong, but I wouldn’t buy a semi-auto that wasn’t a Colt, why should I spend 20 tines the amount for...not a Colt. Shrug.
    Just my OCD, I guess.


    If I were just looking for a shooter, not caring about history or resale value, I’d go with a BRP tube gun, as I’ve gotten a fair bit of trigger time with one, and found it ran amazingly well.

  8. #8
    Frequent DG Adventurer fatdog's Avatar
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    If this is a range toy and "amusement park ride" like mine is, I would tell you the best buy is a MAC 11/9. They are the most populous transferrable in existence, and hence usually the lowest priced.

    The factory upper is a POS and I put mine in a box 10 years ago and have never had it on the gun since.

    Lage Manufacturing makes a wide variety of uppers ranging from .22LR to various 9mm variants, including some that use Suomi drums. He has an AR magazine fed upper in the works.

    You can replace the factory useless wire stock with one of the Lage options and have a decent stock I also used his grip kit.

    I was fortunate enough to buy one of the Alliance Armament 9mm Suomi uppers and their old Sabre11 5.56 upper which is essentially like a magazine fed M249 config. That company is gone now, but I think the new Lage 5.56 upper is going to be even better.

    It is almost like buying an NFA AR lower, in that you are just buying the lower with the plan to put various uppers on the gun. All of this stuff is ATF approved and comes with approval letters for the various uppers, they can do it as long as the design remains open bolt.

    I paid less than $3K for mine, which was over 10 years ago but I don't think the price has climbed much. For far less than $10K you can have the gun and a variety of calibers and uppers.

    Nothing you would want to carry into combat but for full auto entertainment this approach holds its own with all the options that cost 2-10X more....

  9. #9
    Good info. Thanks to all that have replied.


    I guess, based upon what I have to work with, and what I was...hoping...to get for that money, I’m proabnly going to hold off.


    Probably keep putting money away over the winter if al goes well, and then...by that time....I’ll priobably end up with an airplane, instead. Just can’t justify spending as much on what will clearly be a toy, with NO use outside of a bit of fun at the range.

    Maybe if prices ever drop....

  10. #10
    And I thought my gun habit was expensive... you guys take it to another level.


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