Thumb Safeties

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I should be able to get that organized with the ATF from this end, actually. I have a Baer UTC that's been through maybe 3 ECQCs. I like it quite a bit.

[Bucky]

Now that I’ve Googled ECQC, I learned something new.

What would concern me more than a thumb safety, is a 1911 grip safety. Other types of close retention type shooting, I’ve experienced issues deactivating the grip safety. I’m really glad the EDC X9 doesn’t have one.

[ADKilla]

I’ve taken ECQC twice: First with a WC CQB Compact worn strong side, the second with a VP9 worn AIWB. The thumb safety wasn’t as much an impediment as the holster location and the longer grip on the VP9. If you’ve engrained the muscle memory already to operate a thumb safety, you’ll have no problems during the practice drills and learning modules. I agree with Bucky: bigger concern is grip safety. Unless it’s desensitized and you have a bump on it, you could fail to properly engage it.

[Totem Polar]

Now that I’ve Googled ECQC, I learned something new.

What would concern me more than a thumb safety, is a 1911 grip safety. Other types of close retention type shooting, I’ve experienced issues deactivating the grip safety. I’m really glad the EDC X9 doesn’t have one.

That’s a valid point. Like many enthusiasts, I have a 1911 or two. I’ve found the grip safety to be a big problem when practicing extension drills from ECQC. As the gun comes back towards 3, there’s a point where I can’t keep the grip safety activated.

Enough reason for me not to take one to an ECQC. Other hands/wrists may differ.

[Gadfly]

in the first ECQC I took, there was an active FedLEO who gave the early impression that his mindset may have been a little bit "I've been through he top training that FLETC has to offer, so I've got this..."

He flat-out said that Craig's stuff was light years beyond the training he had received up to that point, and I'm inclined to believe him.

Having been an instructor at FLETC, this is 100% true. There is some good training to be had there. BUT, the staff has an emphasis on not allowing any injury. And the simple fact is, we hire a LOT of people who will make great paperwork cops (money laundering/cyber/fraud types), but just have zero business in a fight of any kind.

Every agency is probably the same. We have gun toting special agents who have never made an arrest. Seriously. They may have sworn out warrants, and done lots of surveillance, but actually closing with, laying hands on, and putting into cuffs.... never. And other guys work in high volume units (like alien smuggling), and are physically arresting 20 a week. I would love for all our folks to be ground fighting master, but it just aint happening. Ever.

I have never done EQCQ. I should.

Oh, Thumb Safeties... I was raised on the 1911. I carried one in the Sheriff's Academy, and won Top Gun with it. That said, I am so used to DAO/DAK/LEM/Safe Action, that I am just not a fan these days. As mentioned, if all I had was a 199, I could and would make it work for me. But most will NEVER put in the time to master it.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Haven't gone to ECQC with Craig (MUC only right now), but have had lots of ECQC events during a busy LE career in the day when getting it on with bad guys was the norm and not a bad thing.

I'm alive because of a 1911 thumb safety, so I am in favor of them, but would caution one and all that you must develop a burned in subconscious skill set with them or they will bite you in the ass. Most folks won't do that at all and that's just more fuel for the striker fired pistol fire. I'm all about striker fired pistols now, so take all that for what it's worth.

[HammerStriker]

Haven't gone to ECQC with Craig (MUC only right now), but have had lots of ECQC events during a busy LE career in the day when getting it on with bad guys was the norm and not a bad thing.

I'm alive because of a 1911 thumb safety, so I am in favor of them, but would caution one and all that you must develop a burned in subconscious skill set with them or they will bite you in the ass. Most folks won't do that at all and that's just more fuel for the striker fired pistol fire. I'm all about striker fired pistols now, so take all that for what it's worth.

what about DA/SA or DOA/LEM without safety?

[Duelist]

Same here. Cecil Burch, who commented just before your post, teaches in my area once or twice a year. I have definite interest in training with him as soon as I can.

BehindBluels, thank you for sharing your experiences. I've often considered the potential of having to use an injured hand to shoot/defend myself. That's one of the big reasons I've leaned more towards LEM vs TDA, and have been considering a cocked and locked HK if I end up hating LEM. But for some reason I never put together that with an injured thumb, a safety would be extremely disadvantageous. Thanks for giving me something to chew on.

October.

[UNM1136]

He flat-out said that Craig's stuff was light years beyond the training he had received up to that point, and I'm inclined to believe him.

I took ECQC with a 1911 from duty gear, and Craig's G17Ts. No problems, other than looking over my sights at one point during live fire. Also had CT Lasergrips on the gun. Anyway, Craig's system was less formulaic (remember that discussion about Warren Zevon and Roland??? High point of the class if I do say so myself. He's only human) than anything else I had available.

Anyway, enough reminicing.. IIRC Craig's ECQC was being adopted by 2 state POST agencies as part of their DT curriculum.

pat

[Balisong]

October.

Yep, after I made my post I looked up the calendar of my go-to training folks (that host him I guess) and saw that.
Unfortunately I'll still be working out of town til a couple weeks after that.