P-51 Mustang (thread drift from the ACRO P-1 thread)

[Hambo]

In addition, let's not forget what they were fighting against.

Someone mentioned that the P51 had superior armament compared to other American fighters, which is patently false. The US Navy and USMC was mounting an identical armament to its planes in 1942

So, yeah, like I wrote earlier: don't look at kill numbers and use that on its own as evidence of something being a superior platform.

I'm reading a book about Guadalcanal and it has some interesting points on the air war there. One was that some pilots preferred more ammo for four guns than less ammo for six, so they disabled one in each wing.

You're quite right on kills does not equal aircraft effectiveness. Zeros sacrificed armor for performance and kicked ass to begin with. Once American pilots adjusted tactics, they felt they evened the odds or pushed them in favor of USN/USMC fighters. Check out the Thach Weave.

[TGS]

I'm reading a book about Guadalcanal and it has some interesting points on the air war there. One was that some pilots preferred more ammo for four guns than less ammo for six, so they disabled one in each wing.

You're quite right on kills does not equal aircraft effectiveness. Zeros sacrificed armor for performance and kicked ass to begin with. Once American pilots adjusted tactics, they felt they evened the odds or pushed them in favor of USN/USMC fighters. Check out the Thach Weave.

Does it mention the Grumman F4F-3 Wildcat?

Supposedly there was a lot of heartburn with pilots when they went to the -4 variant with folding wings and 2 extra guns. Dropped the performance a little bit due to the weight, and shortened the firing time of the .50s which the pilots regard 4 .50s as being perfectly adequate for the light construction of Japanese aircraft.......but on an operational level, I guess you can't argue with 1/3 more fighters in the carrier hanger.

There's overwhelming evidence that both the F4F Wildcat and P40 Warhawk were vastly superior fighters compared to both the Ki-43 and A6M. The latter were better aircraft for tight turns with their climb rate/light weight/low wing loading, but as we found out those are essentially bad tactics to begin with; the plane that can disengage from the fight at will and engage as they see fit using zoom tactics is going to win, which the Japanese planes absolutely couldn't do. The same was true for the European theater, where many Jug pilots noted the ability of the P47 being able to disengage from a bad fight at will having saved their bacon multiple times. When people come out with shit that our planes were obsolete until the P51 came around, it has the same nails-on-chalkboard sound as gun people talking about AR15s being unreliable, candy-caning ammo in mags, 1911 stopping power, etc.

[ralph]

Honestly, just buy 100k of Exxon stock and call it a day. Or buy 100k worth of ocean-front in Los Angeles County.

But realistically, Exxon has an annualized return of 11.9% since 1926. Assuming you went back in time to 1926, set it up to buy 100k worth of Exxon stock and you reinvested your annual return back to Exxon stock, you'd have roughly 3.1 billion dollars worth of stock in 2018.

You could probably still buy every flyable P51 out there for that money and have plenty of cash left over.

That's all fine and well, but at my age,(64) I don't need 3.1 billion.. when you have that kind of money, managing it takes control of your life, the stock market become all you worry about. Basically, it controls you, and not the other way around. Besides, most people with that kind of money are flaming assholes.. Money is'nt everything, it can make alot of problems go away, but it can never buy happiness..Look at most multi billionaires, after they've bought everything they've ever wanted, what do most of them end up doing? Buying power,Politicians, and trying to run other peoples lives for them..playing God if you will..Think Bloomberg, Soros, etc, and they're all sour pussed, unhappy sacks of shit. No thanks..I don't want anything to do with that.. Me? All I'd want from a trip in a time machine is make a few investments so that in 2018, I'd have a couple mil, enough to pay all my bills, live comfortably, That, and a stack of NIB N frames, Colt SAA's and a smatering of Winchesters...

Buying a surplus warbird would be tempting, but the reality is, most are money pits, with sources for parts, engines drying up,insurance preimum's going through the roof, owning and operating becomes more and more expensive.. They're fun to look at, but I would'nt own one..

[willie]

Since the P-51 was the first fighter capable of escorting bombers into Germany's interior, it received much publicity and many accolades.The trips into occupied Europe gave more opportunities to shoot down enemy planes. Hence, better stats were possible, and it did have high ranking among the group of other outstanding planes.

[Stephanie B]

Looks like one that was based in Craig Field, Jacksonville, Fl in the early 90s.

If so, it had the name ‘Sizzlin Liz’ at the time. I was a flight instructor at CRG back then and was going to post about how the entire airport would come to a stop as it would taxi out, do a run up, then take off. After you could no longer hear it things would go back to normal until he reentered the pattern for landing. I can still hear that crackling and popping Merlin....

The owner let me look it over. It looked really nice.

I had overnighted at CRG twice enroute Sun & Fun back then. One runway was closed one year. When I left, there was a heck of a crosswind. I taxied out and set up to go off at an angle, then looked up to see the 210 that was landing drifting off to the right and whacking the VASI lights, then going around. Tower cleared me for an immediate departure.

When I came back through several days later, I got to see the 210 in the shop's hangar. The right elevator was pretty well trashed

[DC_P]

The owner let me look it over. It looked really nice.

If I remember right, the owner at CRG was named Dave Marco, and his father had some sort of involvement in the patent/development of the original soft contact lense. Seemed like a nice guy the few times I said hello in passing, but I could never think of anything to say that would not come across as a dopey 23 yr old trying to suck up to get a closer look at his Mustang - which is exactly what it would have been.

[da6dspanburg]

The thread needs more pictures. Here's one of a P51 I took at the Rome Airshow in North Georgia last year.

Here is one I took in May down in Orlando.

[Wheeler]

Here is one I took in May down in Orlando.

Nice! I should have taken some detail shots while I was there. The thought never crossed my mind.

[Toonces]

Also, Packard pretty much had to totally redesign the Merlin engine to make something that was actually properly mass producible. The English were still doing a lot of "get it close enough, then file it to fit" by hand on their production lines.

What's the big deal? 98% of the 1911 enthusiasts still think the same way as the English. And it's over 73 years later with MASSIVE improvements in machining technology.

If I remember right, the owner at CRG was named Dave Marco, and his father had some sort of involvement in the patent/development of the original soft contact lense. Seemed like a nice guy the few times I said hello in passing, but I could never think of anything to say that would not come across as a dopey 23 yr old trying to suck up to get a closer look at his Mustang - which is exactly what it would have been.

I've shot a plenty of neat guns by being a respectful "dopey 23 yr old". Unless the owner of said item is an ass, they will appreciate others' appreciation of their collection, and probably engage in conversation at the least.

(Neat things include a 50 BMG bolt before I owned one, a 470 Nitro double rifle (two rounds for free), a 2" cannon, a 475 Linebaugh revolver, a 470 Nitro Ruger No. 1 (my personal worst recoil ever), and various 458s and 375s.) I also got to drive a Viper and an Accura NSX (like I stole it) merely for the asking. I've missed out on plenty with fits of shyness or propriety. Screw that, show your knowledge and enthusiasm, and engage the owner. The worst they can say is NO, and that never hurt anyone (shove it up your ass, Greenfield WI Ferrari F355 owner in 2003).

[da6dspanburg]

I did take some photos of the entire plane.


And one of the hanger......


david