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Thread: Tumbling/Yawing .38 Special?

  1. #11
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I'll probably stick with my +P Remington LHPs for now. But I'm always interested in whether or not something got lost in the days of yore. It is unlikely that it did but you never know and I like to keep my eyes open.
    The caveman in me always wants a bigger hammer, so I get it. If I were going to go that route I'd go bigger diameter and heavier bullet.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

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  2. #12
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Schwartz View Post
    Hopefully you are far enough south of the south side to not be in the midst of the war-zone that it has become over these last two or three decades. The only thing that I really miss from there (all my family is gone from there now, thank Heaven!) is a long-defunct pizza joint up on North Ave, Cappizzi's Pizza, which made the best damned pizza in the world―I still have dreams where I go back and can almost taste it. Ah, nertz....now I am hungry.
    No, I'm fairly well away from the war zone. I'm in Hyde Park, so north and east of the worst spots. The wife and I did take my FIL to Oak Park to look at Frank Lloyd Wright houses one time and we drove west through Austin - I remember him being very concerned about the neighborhood we were driving through and dumbfounded when in a block it changed from boarded up crack houses to multi-million dollar homes. It blew his mind that you could be driving down North and get to Austin Blvd and the neighborhood just changes. It still strikes me as weird, if you drive southbound on Austin Blvd, to your right are multi-million dollar homes, pristine, to your left are crack houses and cops. I've lived here over four years now and I'm still confused by this city.

    I don't know how good Cappizzi's Pizza was, but the joint we go to is Pequod's Pizza on Clybourn and Webster in the west Lincoln Park/Sheffield neighborhood. That place makes the only good deep dish I've ever had. Crust is caramelized, spicy Italian sausage, green peppers, it's good. 20-30 years ago, that would have been a very dumpy area, because Cabrini Green was still half a mile south of there. Now sitting where Cabrini Green once stood is a Target and across the street a high rise condo development, where the cheapest shoebox condo is 500k.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    The caveman in me always wants a bigger hammer, so I get it. If I were going to go that route I'd go bigger diameter and heavier bullet.
    Well, this did send me down the rabbit hole of various bullets that may tumble more reliably or less reliably. It does look like the Lehigh Maximum Defense bullet is about a 50-50 on doing an end over when fired from a snub. But even when it does, it seems to stay <18" of penetration and of course, no expansion, since that's a monolithic bullet. It also appears that the Hornady Critical Defense in all flavors (90-110-110 +P) tend to tumble when they go through 4-layer denim tests. I can see that too, being kind of a 'spitzier' shape. But again, sort of a mixed bag.

    Still, I continue to remain impressed with +P LHP. The LHP seems to get a reliable 12.5" of penetration and mild if not good expansion regardless of test media, except through auto glass. Though, I do really want to love the new HST...I just wish Federal would push the nose out a bit to make it possible to do reloads quickly with the damn things.

  3. #13
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    <thread drift>
    Back when everyone was kvetching about accuracy issues with M&P 1.0s in 9x19, one of the internet theories advanced was that the 1 in 18-3/4" twist was too slow to stabilize 115-grain bullets at 1150 fps. When I pointed out that it adequately stabilized the old Super Police load from a Chief's Special, I got the online equivalent of "WTF are you talking about?" looks.
    </thread drift>

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    No, I'm fairly well away from the war zone. I'm in Hyde Park, so north and east of the worst spots. The wife and I did take my FIL to Oak Park to look at Frank Lloyd Wright houses one time and we drove west through Austin - I remember him being very concerned about the neighborhood we were driving through and dumbfounded when in a block it changed from boarded up crack houses to multi-million dollar homes. It blew his mind that you could be driving down North and get to Austin Blvd and the neighborhood just changes. It still strikes me as weird, if you drive southbound on Austin Blvd, to your right are multi-million dollar homes, pristine, to your left are crack houses and cops. I've lived here over four years now and I'm still confused by this city.

    I don't know how good Cappizzi's Pizza was, but the joint we go to is Pequod's Pizza on Clybourn and Webster in the west Lincoln Park/Sheffield neighborhood. That place makes the only good deep dish I've ever had. Crust is caramelized, spicy Italian sausage, green peppers, it's good. 20-30 years ago, that would have been a very dumpy area, because Cabrini Green was still half a mile south of there. Now sitting where Cabrini Green once stood is a Target and across the street a high rise condo development, where the cheapest shoebox condo is 500k.
    My, how things've changed....

    When I was last in Chicago, Hyde Park was in pretty rough shape. The house in Oak Park that my maternal grandparents owned up until their deaths was located at the intersection of Humphrey and Iowa; there are times that I've passed through (on the way to Montana to settle the score with prairie dogs) and thought of hopping off of the Dan Ryan to run across Division Avenue to see the old place, but have never done so. Perhaps next time....maybe I'll check out Pequod's too.

    Don't feel too bad about getting confused by the layout of the city. Most of my family (both sides) is from there from as far back (and farther than) as I can remember and they still haven't figured it out either.
    Last edited by the Schwartz; 09-21-2018 at 12:52 PM.
    ''Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity.'' ―Albert Einstein

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  5. #15
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    https://loaddata.com/Article/LoadDev...cial-Loads/290

    I typically prefer heavy for caliber bullets for hunting but it seems faster tougher bullets perform better and more consistent in defensive fights/barriers.

    I'd rather push a bonded 125/130 grain bullet as fast as possible.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I don't know how good Cappizzi's Pizza was, but the joint we go to is Pequod's Pizza on Clybourn and Webster in the west Lincoln Park/Sheffield neighborhood. That place makes the only good deep dish I've ever had. Crust is caramelized, spicy Italian sausage, green peppers, it's good. 20-30 years ago, that would have been a very dumpy area, because Cabrini Green was still half a mile south of there. Now sitting where Cabrini Green once stood is a Target and across the street a high rise condo development, where the cheapest shoebox condo is 500k.
    Small world... for 20 years I lived in the 1600 block of Clybourn, and remember Pequod's. We moved there in 1980, fresh out of school and what we could afford, as you say close to Cabrini and a victim of "urban removal" with vacant lots where about a quarter of the buildings had been demolished by the city. Those first couple of years kids still drag raced on Clybourn which had no traffic, and our friends were mostly afraid to come and visit us. Ironically, those were some of the best neighbors I ever had, good people who looked out for us.

    Only problem we ever had there was when we had just moved in and folks still thought the building was vacant even though we'd already put bars on the windows and metal gates on the doors. One night we came home and found a kid from the projects had broken the door glass and reached through the gate, the dog had grabbed his hand and not let go. Blood everywhere and he was half passed out. Cops took him away. After that things calmed down, good thing because this was during the Chicago gun ban and all we had was one grandfathered shotgun, everything else was in storage in the 'burbs.

    Now it's all gentrified and there's an Apple Store on the corner at North Ave. The year we moved west (2000) it was construction noise all day, party noise all night, and rapidly rising property taxes. Hasn't gotten any better since then from what I've seen.

    The city does make a strange sort of sense to those who grew up there and keep up with the changes. But I'm no longer interested in paying for what passes for government in Illinois.

    Anyway, I'm one of those carrying HBWC on J-frame days. I should share a recent story about that but it belongs in another thread.
    Last edited by Salamander; 09-21-2018 at 11:02 PM.

  7. #17
    Member jtcarm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the Schwartz View Post
    Then why not stick with the HBWC which promises by its very design to cut a much larger permanent wound channel?
    Lots of people have and do. IIRC, Jim Cirillo was one.

    They make a great first six, but reloading from an SL can be a bit problematic.

  8. #18
    Member Wheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtcarm View Post
    Lots of people have and do. IIRC, Jim Cirillo was one.

    They make a great first six, but reloading from an SL can be a bit problematic.
    In my IDPA heydays I had some blazing fast reloads using Safariland Comp 1's. There were a couple of sub 2 second shot to shot reloads recorded on the timer. My secret was a huge box of inverted .38 Special HBWC's that were given to me. When I'd practice at the the range with live fire, I'd use them for my reload. Run a failure drill with a reload for instance. I got REALLY good at lining up the cartridges with the chambers.

    That's probably more work than most folks want to put into learning to reload fast but it is an option.
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