Syrians Shoot Down Russian planes because of Israeli trick?

[ranger]

ADA motto - it flies it dies

[Drang]

I highly doubt the F-16s were using the IL-20 as “cover”. The SA-5 is not a very discriminate weapon system, and is optimized to target big airplanes at medium altitude. Simplest answer is it was probably an act of buffoonery on the Syrians part.

I believe the Israelis were flying F22s, significantly stealthier, with significantly more sophisticated sensor suites.

[GhastlyTT]

I believe the Israelis were flying F22s, significantly stealthier, with significantly more sophisticated sensor suites.

The F-22 is only flown by the US. We never exported it despite requests from our allies.

[Chance]

I highly doubt the F-16s were using the IL-20 as “cover”.

Maybe this should be self-explanatory, but what exactly is meant by using a plane as "cover"?

[Jaywalker]

Maybe this should be self-explanatory, but what exactly is meant by using a plane as "cover"?

There are several ways, but basically you fly close enough to someone else to confuse the radar operator. Particularly on old radars, the "blip" on the screen covers a lot of space, and a bunch of aircraft merge into one blob then separate; which one's which? An aircraft using another as cover wouldn't necessarily have to fly close to the cover aircraft - just put the cover aircraft directly between itself and the ground radar. It sounds easy but in practice it's hard to do, particularly if you're far enough away from the cover aircraft so that they can't see you. Or, alternatively, you can just be in the same area as the cover aircraft and hope the radar operator will lose your track among all the others on the screen he's tracking; the Eastern Med is pretty crowded when you try to put all flights within a hundred miles on a, what, 12-inch screen?

For civilian air traffic controllers aircraft turn on electronic gizmos (IFF) that spits out an electronic identifier. In war, combatants turn this off, or respond only to a code their own forces know. There are other ways to identify non-cooperating aircraft but the old SA-5 radars are unlikely to have them.

[Peally]

Maybe this should be self-explanatory, but what exactly is meant by using a plane as "cover"?

Flying along with the Russian transport plane between yourself and the SAM battery. Considering the general incompetence of the Syrians, there's a 50/50 random chance whether they shoot at you or their buddy if they decide to fire.

Hell it could have been an airliner or UFO, I doubt the idiots behind the S-200 could tell the difference and have a proper ROE set up to avoid an international incident.

[Drang]

The F-22 is only flown by the US. We never exported it despite requests from our allies.

You're correct, I should have said F35s. Curse my manager, giving me 17 number one priorities, doesn't he know I have important posts to post on P-F?!

[TiroFijo]

]For civilian air traffic controllers aircraft turn on electronic gizmos (IFF) that spits out an electronic identifier. In war, combatants turn this off, or respond only to a code their own forces know.[/B] There are other ways to identify non-cooperating aircraft but the old SA-5 radars are unlikely to have them.

Don't russian radars and planes have an specific IFF code?

[einherjarvalk]

They do. The problem is that the Syrian IFF can't read the modern Russian IFF. Whoops.

https://meduza.io/news/2018/09/20/mi...a-svoy-chuzhoy

[TiroFijo]

Oooopsie! Hard to believe in such hostile and complex environment.