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Thread: Any info on safe life Hard Rifle Plate Level IV ICW

  1. #11
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    NIJ is frustratingly stuck in the past with regards to the current threat spectrum. Level III+ should be formalized in some manner for rating 5.56 (M193 and M855) given it's the most common rifle caliber in the US, and EPR should be tested as well given it's already showing up among gang members domestically. There's a ton of cops and EMS out there with rifle plates and a false sense of capability in what they'll stop when they go into an active shooter.

    There's other things which they don't account for as well, like contact shots with soft armor. The FBI (and possibly other orgs?) conducts their own testing independent to NIJ and tests for this.
    NIJ has new categories and testing in process, rifle plates will go from Level III and IV, to Rifle 1-4, incorporating the industry III+ level. Not sure if the public comment window is still open but my team reviewed it for comment on behalf of my agency.


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  2. #12
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    What are you buying the plates for?

    What is your threat profile ?

    If it is domestic / CONUS LE then M193 and 855/green tip are common threats and you want players which will stop them.

    Do not assume. As TGS said the NIH ratings on plates are BS.
    NIJ labels on a plate can be cross referenced with the active NIJ certifications listing on the NIJ/NLECTC website. Always good to double check a manufacturers claim.


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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjr_29 View Post
    NIJ labels on a plate can be cross referenced with the active NIJ certifications listing on the NIJ/NLECTC website. Always good to double check a manufacturers claim.


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    But NIJ ratings are not keeping up with current threats.

    NIJ operates on the assumption that just because a plate stops a “bigger” round like .308 or 30-06 must stop a “mere” 5.56.

    Neither M855 green tip nor M193 are addressed directly in the NIJ listings.

    https://www.justnet.org/pdf/Understa...Protection.pdf

    The problem is hard armor doesn’t work that way. There are plates which will stop 308, 30-06 and AK rounds which won’t stop green tip 5.56. There are also plates which will stop green tip but won’t stop M193, especially out of a 20” barrel.

    You see this with steel targets as well, M193 being harder on steel than green tip.

    This is what TGS was referring to earlier. It would be nice if they caught up and addressed two of the most common rifle threats but as of now they have not.

    This is a sore subject with me as someone in my agency wasted a bunch of money buying Level III “in conjunction” poly plates and issuing them stand alone in plate carriers. Plus they are a different brand from our issued soft armor so even the in conjunction rationing from the manufacturer cannot be relied on.
    Last edited by HCM; 09-19-2018 at 10:30 PM.

  4. #14
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    The FBI (and possibly other orgs?) conducts their own testing independent to NIJ and tests for this.
    Are FBI test results available to other agencies or the public?
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  5. #15
    Member kjr_29's Avatar
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    Any info on safe life Hard Rifle Plate Level IV ICW

    Quote Originally Posted by HCM View Post
    But NIJ ratings are not keeping up with current threats.

    NIJ operates on the assumption that just because a plate stops a “bigger” round like .308 or 30-06 must stop a “mere” 5.56.

    Neither M855 green tip nor M193 are addressed directly in the NIJ listings.

    https://www.justnet.org/pdf/Understa...Protection.pdf

    The problem is hard armor doesn’t work that way. There are plates which will stop 308, 30-06 and AK rounds which won’t stop green tip 5.56. There are also plates which will stop green tip but won’t stop M193, especially out of a 20” barrel.

    You see this with steel targets as well, M193 being harder on steel than green tip.

    This is what TGS was referring to earlier. It would be nice if they caught up and addressed two of the most common rifle threats but as of now they have not.

    This is a sore subject with me as someone in my agency wasted a bunch of money buying Level III “in conjunction” poly plates and issuing them stand alone in plate carriers. Plus they are a different brand from our issued soft armor so even the in conjunction rationing from the manufacturer cannot be relied on.
    The “in conjunction” sentiment is understandable. When we began our search, some forthright folks in the industry were very clear with my team that there was no formula for armor ‘stacking’ (IIIA soft plus III hard equals.....).

    We did a lot of shoot testing and ended up with multi-hit rated KDH Defense products, very pleased with them. It helps that they have a huge piece of the current gen contract for the Army. The contents of the plate will determine what it can defeat. Unfortunately, the high end ceramic composites that do defeat the small/hard/ fast rounds are priced outside of the budget reach for most agencies.


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    Last edited by kjr_29; 09-20-2018 at 05:56 AM.

  6. #16
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    Are FBI test results available to other agencies or the public?
    I imagine so to other agencies, at least.

    Doc might be a good source to check with.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

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