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Thread: HST; Bonded Or Not?

  1. #1

    Question HST; Bonded Or Not?

    All of the ballistic gel and water tests that I have watched/seen on the HST bullet, not one has separated from its jacket. But, I have also read a few articles about the HST being a NON BONDED bullet. If this were the case, wouldn't there be bullet/jacket separation?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by CajunMP357 View Post
    All of the ballistic gel and water tests that I have watched/seen on the HST bullet, not one has separated from its jacket. But, I have also read a few articles about the HST being a NON BONDED bullet. If this were the case, wouldn't there be bullet/jacket separation?
    Not really. Bonded rounds are much less likely to exhibit jacket separation, but bonding is not the only way to minimize jacket separation. I don't know how HST is constructed, but bonded bullets do not have a monopoly on jacket retention through barriers.

  3. #3
    HST is not bonded, we had a separation with 147 HST in the auto glass test in ATK testing at my dept.

  4. #4
    HST like Critical Duty has a ridge on the inside of the jacket that serves to keep the jacket attached to the lead core. It's 'mechanically' bonded. I could see where HST or Critical Duty could have a jacket separation if it over expanded or something like that.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter DocGKR's Avatar
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    Yup--HST is not bonded, but a pretty good design which works well in a wide variety of conditions.

    Gold Dots are plated, not actually bonded. The old Fed Tactical and TBBC are true bonded bullets.
    Facts matter...Feelings Can Lie

  6. #6
    In my own humble water tests the newer lots of 147 gr HST have a double cannulere that limits the petals from folding back behind the bullet base,allowing for straighter and deeper penetration.

  7. #7

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    Yup--HST is not bonded, but a pretty good design which works well in a wide variety of conditions.

    Gold Dots are plated, not actually bonded. The old Fed Tactical and TBBC are true bonded bullets.
    When you say plated, can you define that, please?

  8. #8
    Member KhanRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CajunMP357 View Post
    When you say plated, can you define that, please?
    Not Doc, but it is a electro-plating process. Soft lead bullets are submerged in a copper solution, and the copper molecules attach themselves to the lead molecules on the bullet's outer surface. The weak point of the process is that it needs softer lead bullets for the copper molecules to attach to, and the copper coating is pure copper which isn't very hard. The result is an overall soft bullet. Gold Dots use this process, although they have a copper partition in the middle to add strength and when the bullet expands you can see the copper "dot" in the center(hence "gold dots").

    Bonded bullets are MUCH more durable since they use a harder lead alloy for the bullet, and a harder copper alloy for the jacket, which is then fused together using the same electro-chemical process as plated bullets. The jacket does not adhere to the core as well as a Gold Dot, but the overall structure of the bullet is better.

    HSTs use a deep bullet cannilure which serves two functions. It helps prevent core/jacket separation, and it helps prevent the bullet from over expanding. Remington tried to copy this with their Black Belt ammo.

    Personally I still feel the HST is the best overall bullet design for the major calibers. It is about as durable as many bonded bullet designs, it has great penetration/expansion characteristics, and it is relatively affordable. We started using Speer G2s for a few years, and have gone back to the HST.
    Last edited by KhanRad; 09-12-2018 at 12:10 PM.
    "A man with an experience is not a slave to a man with an opinion."

  9. #9

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by KhanRad View Post
    Not Doc, but it is a electro-plating process. Soft lead bullets are submerged in a copper solution, and the copper molecules attach themselves to the lead molecules on the bullet's outer surface. The weak point of the process is that it needs softer lead bullets for the copper molecules to attach to, and the copper coating is pure copper which isn't very hard. The result is an overall soft bullet. Gold Dots use this process, although they have a copper partition in the middle to add strength and when the bullet expands you can see the copper "dot" in the center(hence "gold dots").

    Bonded bullets are MUCH more durable since they use a harder lead alloy for the bullet, and a harder copper alloy for the jacket, which is then fused together using the same electro-chemical process as plated bullets. The jacket does not adhere to the core as well as a Gold Dot, but the overall structure of the bullet is better.

    HSTs use a deep bullet cannilure which serves two functions. It helps prevent core/jacket separation, and it helps prevent the bullet from over expanding. Remington tried to copy this with their Black Belt ammo.

    Personally I still feel the HST is the best overall bullet design for the major calibers. It is about as durable as many bonded bullet designs, it has great penetration/expansion characteristics, and it is relatively affordable. We started using Speer G2s for a few years, and have gone back to the HST.
    Thanks so much for that very educating explanation. And, that is very cool to now know how Gold Dot received its name.
    Q?; My go to SD round is RANGER T-SERIES (HST 2nd). I have seen a lot of ballistic gel/water tests with this ammo and have never seen bullet/jacket separation, even though it's a NON BONDED bullet. Why is this? Do the EVIL Talons have anything to do with this?

  10. #10
    Member KhanRad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CajunMP357 View Post
    Q?; My go to SD round is RANGER T-SERIES (HST 2nd). I have seen a lot of ballistic gel/water tests with this ammo and have never seen bullet/jacket separation, even though it's a NON BONDED bullet. Why is this? Do the EVIL Talons have anything to do with this?
    The Talons are a pretty good bullet design, and were the go-to round for a long time. 9mm 147gr RTs were Doc's favorite for a long time too. They were a good design in that the copper alloy talons went way down into the hollow point cavity and gave the nose much more durability than other JHPs on the market. They are still a great round, but I think many testers and users think that the HST is just a little bit better. The cuts in the nose of the HST allows the design to utilize a much thicker copper alloy jacket than other JHPs out there. Conventional JHPs have to use a thinner jacket, otherwise the bullet won't expand reliably. The HST cuts allow for more reliable expansion, and the thicker jacket allows for a more durable bullet. Speer copied the HST cuts in their G2 bullet.
    Last edited by KhanRad; 09-12-2018 at 07:40 PM.
    "A man with an experience is not a slave to a man with an opinion."

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