Switch to S&W 351c from 442?

[MandoWookie]

I currently own a 442, but increasingly I have been less and less enthused with it. Though it does its job well, ie being a lightweight pocket or jogging gun, as a gun I that I actually shoot ,though, it kinda sucks. I find it so handy I never leave the house without it at least getting thrown in a pocket, but everytime I go to the range it gets left in that pocket. I don't like carrying a gun everday that I never shoot. Despite that, and knowing that the gun that I'm most likely to have to hand if I need one, is the one I have the least confidence in being able to use affectively, why can I always find an excuse to not shoot it? I think it comes down to a few things. 1. Recoil. While I'm not really recoil sensitive, and love launching magnums out my Security Six, there are very few loads that aren't unpleasant for me to shoot out of it, pretty much wadcutters and lighter grain rounds ( also those 125 gr Special Shorts), and only the wadcutters really shoot to the sights, which brings me to.... 2. The sights. Or lack thereof. Outside of a well-lit range(which my local indoor range is not), on a relatively light target, I pretty much can't stand them. I think I've been so spoiled by the plethora of hi-vis options for my Glocks that the milled in ramp and notch make me feel short-changed. Speaking of change.... 3. Ammo cost. This is probably the biggest mental roadblock I've set up for myself. Any way you look at it, .38 costs more than 9mm ( my primary shooting fodder). Sights and recoil can be worked around with different grips( Crimson Trace, two birds, one stone, some assembly required), and by just buying wadcutters. The issue I'm running into that by doing that I'm going to be spending 1/2 as much as the gun itself for an add-on that might help, and essentially adding another, more costly caliber to stock. Which is why I happened to to start looking at the 352c. Same size and as light as the 442. Comes with a XS dot sight, with the ability to change it if I want. TWO MORE ROUNDS! Of .22.... TWO MORE ROUNDS THOUGH! .22 Magnum is relatively inexpensive. And there are dedicated defensive rounds for it from Speer and Hornady.
It should recoil less than cheap .38. If I'm going to be buying dedicated snubby ammo, its much easier on the wallet than .38 as well. Downsides are a reputation for horrendous triggers, downgrade in terminal ballistics, and the base guns cost more. I've pretty much talked myself into trading my 442 for 351, but before making that leap was wanting second opinions. Is my logic sound? Or am I just trying to buy skill, and should just suck it up and shoot the .38 more?

[willie]

I suggest that you try the 351c because you don't feel right about the 442. If you will indeed practice more, then that is certainly desirable. I do think that the .22 mag round is ballistically inferior. One reason is velocity loss in a short barrel revolver. There are a couple more reasons. But, you might consider keeping the 442 and buying the 351c. This way you can compare them side by side. You can also benefit by practicing with the .22. Then you can decide on selling one or keeping both. I'm going to make a prediction. If you decide on keeping only the .22, I think that you will elect not to shoot it more than you did the 442. Some folks don't have a good fit with revolvers. You might consider Glock's .380 matched with a holster recommended here. I too would like a 351c. Nobody can criticize your choice.

[Totem Polar]

Re: sights. No sugar coating it: S&W deserves derision for only offering 442/642 sights that first went on revolvers before WWII was a thing. If Colt and Kimber can step fully into the 90’s, at the least, I see no excuse for S&W.

That said, one solution is split around the 351c with two guns: the 642 (or 442) and the .22LR 43c. I think we all know how much .22 you can get for the same price as 1k rounds of decent .38 fodder. If every ramge trip included 100 rounds through the 43c, and finished with, say 20-25 148 wadcutter through the "carry gun," life would be good, and fun.

Any .22lr understudy gun pays for itself reasonably quickly. JMO.

[MandoWookie]

(In response to willie) That's the thing. If I get the 351c, I will be going in blind. I don't know anyone that has one, and am not aware of range around me that has one to rent. My local indoor range does have a Glock 42, and if get the 351 they also have a 442 so I could still do a side-by-side. My main reason to want to to trade in on a 351 is to lower the price of admission, and if I decide that I have made a horrible decision, going back to .38 has a lower entry cost than the reverse. It also would make it easier to consider other options than the 442, either other J-frames or something like the LCR, and not feel like I need to maintain commonality with a gun I don't really like. But I will definitely rent the G42 before I make any decisions.

[RevolverRob]

First thought, yes - .38 is always more expensive than 9mm. Chances are, you aren't shooting very much anyways. I've never shot more than 100 rounds of .38 Special through a J-Frame in a week. When you do the math, does it make that big of a difference?

Second thought, .38 target wadcutters - Federal Match. That will likely save you recoil-induced pain.

Third thought, yes the stock sights on Airweight J-frames are pretty mediocre. There are options out there, XS big dots that are epoxied in place are among the cheapest. Several very good options exist elsewhere. D&L Sports makes an excellent sight setup for the J-Frame, Cylinder and Slide can do just about anything you want. Milling in a Novak's dovetail will give you virtually limitless options. Factory forms can be improved, significantly by painted the ramp a bright color. Adding a laser grip and sighting it in properly, will solve virtually all of the sighting woes, in my experience. The dot should by partly obscured by the ramp when you're looking down the sights (imagine you're aiming the sights at that bright red dot). In my experience, people make a mistake with laser grips watching the dot, watch the sights, the dot functions like the brightest bullseye on the planet.

Fourth thought, rimfire revolvers are much more prone to developing misfires if the springs are mucked with too much. This means resolving the bad trigger pulls on things like the 351C, can result in sub-par ignition. Not what you want in a defensive weapon.

Fifth, if I was going to buy a rimfire snub revolver, a 43C or a .22LR LCR would be the two I'd look at. .22 Mag rounds, like the Critical Defense or Gold Dot, have mediocre expansion (at best, they expand to the caliber you started out with, about .35x") and okay penetration (at best 15", but in many cases less than 12"). If you go .22LR, you just run a match-grade solid bullet and expect 15" of penetration, no expansion. You gain an additional round.

Of course, if you run a .38 wadcutter, you start out at .357" caliber, you have a substantially heavier bullet (103-grains more bullet, that's adding a whole .380 Golden Saber...to the mix) and you'll get reliable penetration of 15" or so.

[RevolverRob]

Re: sights. No sugar coating it: S&W deserves derision for only offering 442/642 sights that first went on revolvers before WWII was a thing. If Colt and Kimber can step fully into the 90’s, at the least, I see no excuse for S&W.

That said, one solution is split around the 351c with two guns: the 642 (or 442) and the .22LR 43c. I think we all know how much .22 you can get for the same price as 1k rounds of decent .38 fodder. If every ramge trip included 100 rounds through the 43c, and finished with, say 20-25 148 wadcutter through the "carry gun," life would be good, and fun.

Any .22lr understudy gun pays for itself reasonably quickly. JMO.

All of the above is true.

We really need to push Smith to do a limited edition no-lock X42 with a 2.5" barrel, a dovetailed front sight, and a Performance Center trigger job. No cutting for moonclips, no porting, none of the various crap add-ons they always pitch.

[peterb]

A couple of thoughts from a relatively new 442 owner:

Ammunition cost: I‘ve had good luck with Precision Delta remanufactured wadcutters as practice ammo. Cost is close to 9mm practice ammo.
http://www.precisiondelta.com/produc...ed-ammunition/
I use the Federal Gold Medal wadcutters for carry.

Some thoughts on reloads:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....I-as-wadcutter

Recoil: Grips help a lot. I ended up with the Crimson Trace LG-305, but I understand the reluctance to spend $190 on grips.
https://www.amazon.com/Crimson-Trace...eywords=lg-305
If you’re willing to trade off some size for comfort there are a lot of options. I’ve used the Pacmayer Compac(comfortable but big), and there was just a thread here about using a Taurus grip on j-frames.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....e-a-little-sad

Sights: No changes there, but going to a different grip helped my index.

[MandoWookie]

That said, one solution is split around the 351c with two guns: the 642 (or 442) and the .22LR 43c. I think we all know how much .22 you can get for the same price as 1k rounds of decent .38 fodder. If every ramge trip included 100 rounds through the 43c, and finished with, say 20-25 148 wadcutter through the "carry gun," life would be good, and fun.

Any .22lr understudy gun pays for itself reasonably quickly. JMO.

That is definitely another solution. Probably might be the best. Main downside for me though is the 43c is the same cost as the 351c( see comment about why I'm looking at trading instead of just buying) , and it has the same features as the 351c, namely better sights than the 442. Which doesn't help as a trainer because I can't change the 442. And my biggest hangup with 442 is the recoil control and neither .22 or dry-firing seem like they can really help there, only shooting more can. Which gets back to my second big complaint,ammo cost. That's my main attraction to the 351c, as a compromise between a two-gun solution, I get the lower ammo cost and recoil w/ (theoretically) better sights , but higher ammo costs than a dedicated trainer would have, and less terminal effectiveness than my current setup, but only having to buy one gun to get 80% of what ( I think) I want.

[peterb]

A quick look shows new .22 Mag selling for roughly .20/round, which is comparable to 9mm and not much less than .38spl wadcutter remans.

If you can go from a two-finger grip to a three-finger grip that covers the backstrap, I think you’ll feel a huge increase in shooting comfort. If your use can’t accomodate that size increase then stepping down in caliber might make sense.
Examples:
https://www.amazon.com/Pachmayr-0325.../dp/B0018EXSXS
https://www.hogueinc.com/s-w-j-frame...mer-grip-black

[Chuck Whitlock]

while these might not help with recoil control, it might be an option for you without purchasing another gun:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...iber-box-of-50

https://www.natchezss.com/speer-plas...cal-50-ct.html