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Thread: A bullet to the neck couldn’t stop him

  1. #1

    A bullet to the neck couldn’t stop him

    https://thenewsrep.com/71275/bullet-neck-couldnt-stop/

    Interesting read.. albeit the author makes a few conclusions I wouldn't completely agree with.

    - I'm assuming the type of AK projectile used was a FMJ type similar to M43. Had it been of a SP style (like in the video he posted as part of this write up) I think the severity of the would have much more significant and life threatening.

  2. #2
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    Wow! Lucky dude.

    This part regarding TBI from distant shots makes me hummm....

    "Although making a steady recovery from the spinal shock in the months to years following the injury, a more insidious sequelae from the damage done by the temporary cavity of the bullet began to manifest. Interestingly from a medical perspective, the casualty developed symptoms of traumatic brain injury (TBI) which, while frequently seen in war casualties, is more typically associated with blast injuries, and almost always associated with loss of consciousness. Having spent my previous career in the military medical space, I had never heard of the concept of a TBI from a gunshot wound distal to the head. Having been introduced to the concept, however, and keeping the video image of the temporary cavitation from a high-velocity missile in mind, it makes perfect sense that that same pressure wave that disrupts tissues surrounding the permanent cavity of a bullet could cause significant damage to brain tissue, especially if shot at relatively close range through the neck or upper torso.

    In fact, studies have demonstrated that ballistic wounds as distal as the abdomen and thorax can cause a transmitted pressure wave through the brain with enough force to generate a TBI (Courtney & Courtney, 2007). I encourage anyone reading this who has an interest in military medicine or TBIs to look up the Courtney reference, as it has opened my eyes to a new significant risk of TBI resulting from distal gunshot wounds that I was previously oblivious to, which has implications for early management of such injuries."

  3. #3
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    I believe that the Courtney "study" has been thoroughly debunked as the rankest form of bullshit. Doc was part of that furball as I recall.
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  4. #4
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    ...come'on Wayne, you are just a science denier

    https://www.researchgate.net/publica...rostatic_Shock

    Sad remainder that not everything coming from people educated or working at MIT/Hardvard/West Point/US Gov. research grants/etc. is trustworthy.

  5. #5
    From someone who has been published in a couple of different scientific fields, just because something is, “peer reviewed,” doesn’t mean that the peers aren’t assholes, or that the editor of the journal isn’t trying to move copies.

    You still have to vet sources.


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  6. #6
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    I'll keep it simple. All the permanent and temporary cavitation in the world doesn't matter, if the bullet misses everything vital. The body is fluid filled and thus some aspects of fluid dynamics work. But a bullet isn't a damn explosion. It does not push a pressure wave anywhere close to what an explosion does. The "TBI" injuries discussed here are probably a function of blood loss - not a function of cavitation.

    Though the "neck" contains several vital components to keeping humans running (branches of the carotid artery and jugular vein, and access to the spinal cord) these are very narrow target zones for a bullet to hit. In this case, the bullet missed both the artery and the vein and was nowhere near the spinal column. End result = human keeps on trucking. I doubt even an expanding bullet would have caused sufficient damage in that narrow area of impact to result in incapacitation (unless a piece of the bullet clipped the artery and/or vein). A tumbling bullet might have done more significant damage, but if it still missed the vitals, it would be tissue damage.

    In short, shoot someone in the head or the chest. If you want to hit someone in the neck and take them down - use a knife, insert at the base and just behind the ear, push the blade all the way across and then down and out. That will do it. Unless you're firing bullets with profiles like a knife blade, you run the risk of doing precisely what is described in the story above, shooting through the neck and doing nothing of real note to the shootee.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I'll keep it simple. All the permanent and temporary cavitation in the world doesn't matter, if the bullet misses everything vital. The body is fluid filled and thus some aspects of fluid dynamics work. But a bullet isn't a damn explosion. It does not push a pressure wave anywhere close to what an explosion does. The "TBI" injuries discussed here are probably a function of blood loss - not a function of cavitation.
    The effect of a temporary expansion cavity can cause a bullet which would in theory miss all vital structures a second chance to cause lethal injury. Specifically with rifle bullets, there can be a small, but significant effect to remote structures as a result of the temporary expansion cavity. In some cases, the injuries are not clinically significant (liver lacerations caused by the temp expansion cavity in a double lung/heart path) and in some cases the temporary expansion cavity causes the lethal wound (mid chest wall shot, failed to enter the thoracic cavity at all-complete rupture of the left ventricle of the heart with catastrophic hemopericardium). Both of those cases were with civilian 7.62x39mm bullets. Adding a very small zone of "close" around the bullet usually doesn't matter, except when it does. But it still requires that something vital is struck.

    But I still wouldn't count on it, just be happy (or sad) if it works out that way.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Thanatos View Post
    The effect of a temporary expansion cavity can cause a bullet which would in theory miss all vital structures a second chance to cause lethal injury. Specifically with rifle bullets, there can be a small, but significant effect to remote structures as a result of the temporary expansion cavity. In some cases, the injuries are not clinically significant (liver lacerations caused by the temp expansion cavity in a double lung/heart path) and in some cases the temporary expansion cavity causes the lethal wound (mid chest wall shot, failed to enter the thoracic cavity at all-complete rupture of the left ventricle of the heart with catastrophic hemopericardium). Both of those cases were with civilian 7.62x39mm bullets. Adding a very small zone of "close" around the bullet usually doesn't matter, except when it does. But it still requires that something vital is struck.

    But I still wouldn't count on it, just be happy (or sad) if it works out that way.
    A high velocity varmint bullet in the same trajectory as this incident would have been gruesome... and likely lethal.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    I'll keep it simple. All the permanent and temporary cavitation in the world doesn't matter, if the bullet misses everything vital. The body is fluid filled and thus some aspects of fluid dynamics work. But a bullet isn't a damn explosion. It does not push a pressure wave anywhere close to what an explosion does. The "TBI" injuries discussed here are probably a function of blood loss - not a function of cavitation.

    Though the "neck" contains several vital components to keeping humans running (branches of the carotid artery and jugular vein, and access to the spinal cord) these are very narrow target zones for a bullet to hit. In this case, the bullet missed both the artery and the vein and was nowhere near the spinal column. End result = human keeps on trucking. I doubt even an expanding bullet would have caused sufficient damage in that narrow area of impact to result in incapacitation (unless a piece of the bullet clipped the artery and/or vein). A tumbling bullet might have done more significant damage, but if it still missed the vitals, it would be tissue damage.

    In short, shoot someone in the head or the chest. If you want to hit someone in the neck and take them down - use a knife, insert at the base and just behind the ear, push the blade all the way across and then down and out. That will do it. Unless you're firing bullets with profiles like a knife blade, you run the risk of doing precisely what is described in the story above, shooting through the neck and doing nothing of real note to the shootee.
    I'm aware of several cases of GSWs to the neck in my network of friends, co-workers, etc. They all fell into two categories: dead very quickly or fairly quick recovery with nothing in between. If you miss vital structures, you get a recovery and if you hit those vital structures, particularly the vascular ones, you have a swift fatality.
    Regional Government Sales Manager for Aimpoint, Inc. USA
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  10. #10
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    Didn't one of the agents in the Miami shootout take a rifle round to the neck and became temporarily paralyzed?

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