Is/was PMC Starfire terrible ?

[Baldanders]

I'm just a simple idiot who likes to shoot milk jugs and recover bullets.

Everything I've shot so far (9mm--- 147 grain Gold Dot and Ranger T-series, 124 grain +p Gold Dot, Hornady Critical Defense , .38--Critical Defense, .357 --Critical Duty, .45-- 230 grain Gold Dot) has expanded beautifully, with two exceptions-- PPU .32acp jhp (no shocker, I was hoping it wouldn't) and some 230 grain Starfire .45acp from around 1999 or so.

The following pics show a comparison of unfired rounds of Gold Dot on the right(purchased around the same time) and Starfire on the left and recovered bullets of each . The Gold Dot stopped on jug #4, the Starfire penetrated all 4 jugs and stopped in the kitty litter jug behind them. When I get a new battery for my calipers, I'll post some recovered diameters.

So is Starfire crap? Has it improved? Just curious. Seems like the jacket was too thick on this batch.

[WDR]

I'm just a simple idiot who likes to shoot milk jugs and recover bullets.

Everything I've shot so far (9mm--- 147 grain Gold Dot and Ranger T-series, 124 grain +p Gold Dot, Hornady Critical Defense , .38--Critical Defense, .357 --Critical Duty, .45-- 230 grain Gold Dot) has expanded beautifully, with two exceptions-- PPU .32acp jhp (no shocker, I was hoping it wouldn't) and some 230 grain Starfire .45acp from around 1999 or so.

The following pics show a comparison of unfired rounds of Gold Dot on the right(purchased around the same time) and Starfire on the left and recovered bullets of each . The Gold Dot stopped on jug #4, the Starfire penetrated all 4 jugs and stopped in the kitty litter jug behind them. When I get a new battery for my calipers, I'll post some recovered diameters.

So is Starfire crap? Has it improved? Just curious. Seems like the jacket was too thick on this batch.

I seem to recall that the same guy designed Starfire and Hydra Shock... I could be wrong. That said, I don't really recall Starfire ever being "good"... It does have a cool name.

[Baldanders]

I think it does well with the crowd that thinks Hydra-Shok is the pinnacle of bullet tech.

The bullet does look fearsome.

Me, I like Gold Dot. I'd probably be buying HST if I was re-upping at the moment, because it is quite inexpensive online. My nine mags are loaded with 147 Ranger T-series right now because my poor dad mistook nickel plating for steel cases and gave me 250 rounds of it after he bought the bonded Ranger for his own use.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I seem to recall that the same guy designed Starfire and Hydra Shock... I could be wrong. That said, I don't really recall Starfire ever being "good"... It does have a cool name.

Tom Burczynski


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[CCT125US]

Tom Burczynski

Also the new Remington Black Belt.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/ammo/remi...k-belt-bullet/

[KhanRad]

[QUOTE=Baldanders;782309]

So is Starfire crap?QUOTE]

Well, it didn't shrink.......

[the Schwartz]

I'm just a simple idiot who likes to shoot milk jugs and recover bullets.

Everything I've shot so far (9mm--- 147 grain Gold Dot and Ranger T-series, 124 grain +p Gold Dot, Hornady Critical Defense , .38--Critical Defense, .357 --Critical Duty, .45-- 230 grain Gold Dot) has expanded beautifully, with two exceptions-- PPU .32acp jhp (no shocker, I was hoping it wouldn't) and some 230 grain Starfire .45acp from around 1999 or so.

The following pics show a comparison of unfired rounds of Gold Dot on the right(purchased around the same time) and Starfire on the left and recovered bullets of each . The Gold Dot stopped on jug #4, the Starfire penetrated all 4 jugs and stopped in the kitty litter jug behind them. When I get a new battery for my calipers, I'll post some recovered diameters.

So is Starfire crap? Has it improved? Just curious. Seems like the jacket was too thick on this batch.

The performance of the Starfire in your water test is disappointing to be sure. In all likelihood, if a JHP won't expand in water, it won't expand in flesh. On that basis,—that is, using water testing as a 'failure discriminator'—, if they were mine, I'd probably relegate them to 'range fodder' and be done with them.

With the caveat that the use of Clear Ballistics Gel introduces certain technical concerns over the accuracy, validity and comparability of its results against those obtained using fully researched and proven tissue simulants (e.g.: 10% gelatin, water, etc.), it looks like Chris Baker of Lucky Gunner also encountered similar performance issues with the PMC .45ACP 230-grain Starfire JHP here—

https://www.luckygunner.com/45-acp-2...rounds#geltest

—so it appears with this limited evidence that the Starfire design has some issues.

BTW, are you shooting over a chronograph placed before the water-filled jugs?

[Sherman A. House DDS]

@DocGKR

I remember this round being a, “dud,” in terms of effectiveness. But its use predates the digital age. What’s the historical skinny on it please?


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[Baldanders]

The performance of the Starfire in your water test is disappointing to be sure. In all likelihood, if a JHP won't expand in water, it won't expand in flesh. On that basis,—that is, using water testing as a 'failure discriminator'—, if they were mine, I'd probably relegate them to 'range fodder' and be done with them.


BTW, are you shooting over a chronograph placed before the water-filled jugs?

That's why I bother to shoot jugs(other than pure fun)-- certainly not a test that shows excellent performance(unless you are deliberately trying for a non-expanding hollowpoint, my preference in mousegun calibers), but it can show disastrous failure.

No chronograph here, but if anyone is willing to let one go cheap as hell, please pm me.

One other datum I should mention: these were shot from a short barrel Kahr (cw45). When I "test" the Starfire again, it will be from a 5" barrel, hoping I can get a friend out who has a chronograph and a Camp Carbine for some real fun.

No danger of these being used for defensive use, I like to keep around odds and ends to "play" with.

If I could chrono these, I would be tempted to pull a few and reload them with some book max Blue Dot loads to see the performance difference.

I do have to say, I don't remember anyone who knew what the hell they were talking about recommending these to me, ever. According to my LNGS, they still have quite the following. But he also sells a decent amount of RIP. (Shudders)

[blake_g]

I found the .357 150 grain load disappointing out of a 6" Model 27, however out of a carbine it was pretty effective on coyotes and a coupe of deer (shot from the side, ribs broken on entry and exit, no shoulder hit)...