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Thread: Ghost lettering and/or minimally marked vehicles for traffic stops

  1. #1

    Ghost lettering and/or minimally marked vehicles for traffic stops

    Am I the only one who doesn’t get the whole fad of having patrol vehicles with “ghost lettering”?

    For those of you who don’t know what Ghost Lettering is, it’s a particular style of lettering where you almost have to be directly perpendicular to the broad side of a patrol car to be able to read the writing.

    Here in Georgia we have a section of our code which dictates that any vehicle used for traffic enforcement must be conspicuously marked.

    O.C.G.A. 40-8-91

    (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this Code section, any motor vehicle which is used on official business by any person authorized to make arrests for traffic violations in this state, or any municipality or county thereof, shall be distinctly marked on each side and the back with the name of the agency responsible therefor, in letters not less than four inches in height.

    ...
    The code section goes on to talk about marking requirements for the state patrol and a few other tidbits.

    So then today I see this on Facebook for a Sheriff’s Department I mean OFFICE (had to Jlw).

    Attachment 29724
    Attachment 29725

    It does conform to the requirements set forth by O.C.G.A. 40-8-91

    My gripe is this:

    There are plenty enough incidents of folks impersonating officers using their own rigged up unmarked cars, why add to the confusion? I would think some admin would step back and go “For the safety of our officers and the public, let’s have our traffic units marked so as there’s no mistaking them for a potential impersonator”.
    “Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”

  2. #2
    The last part of of 40-8-91 states:

    (f) An otherwise lawful arrest shall not be invalidated or in any manner affected by failure to comply with this Code section.

    The law is meaningless.

    That aside, I see no reason to be sneaky. I've published in the paper, put up electronic signs along the road, and sent out Nixle alerts as to where we were running speed detection and still had deputies run through a ticket book in less than an hour and get people at more than 30MPH above the limit.

    The issue that I seen with agencies doing such things is that ultimately it leads to either bad statutory or case law.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  3. #3
    I'm not LE.

    Where should a citizen draw the line on when it is appropriate to pull over for a vehicle that is not distinguishable as a marked car?

    I'm not a fan of unmarked cars or officers out of uniform.

  4. #4
    Member orionz06's Avatar
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    I'm really curious for the rationale here. One municipality near me does this and often has people not stop for them. I've had a few yellow light runners go past my home and continue driving until the second, marked, vehicle shows up.
    Think for yourself. Question authority.

  5. #5
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by littlejerry View Post
    I'm not LE.

    Where should a citizen draw the line on when it is appropriate to pull over for a vehicle that is not distinguishable as a marked car?
    Neither am I and that's a real good question. Maybe find the closest public area with lots of people or traffic just like if you were meeting someone to sell something? If that's not an option, maybe call the local PD or 911 to see if it's legit first? Just don't make it look like you're trying to run.

    I like my police cars to be conspicuously marked and easily distinguishable. Not so I can hide or stop whatever nefarious activity I'm engaged in but because if I need a cop, I don't want to have to guess which cars is his!
    Last edited by awp_101; 09-01-2018 at 11:14 AM.
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

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  6. #6
    Follow the $$. When folks see a bright yellow Crown Vic with search lights atop they tend to slow down and obey the rules for a short stint. That means no ticket. No idea how effective tickets are at changing driving habits, so I can’t comment on what’s more effective keeping people safe from speeders. But it’s hard to justify stuff to political hacks without stats.

    Personally, I don’t like the ghost marks, nor the use of common paint colors and schemes for anything other that UC work, and plain clothes guys. There are plenty of folks out there who impersonate cops and do bad things to folks unfortunate enough to stop for them. Why make that easier? Why not make it insanely easy to prove criminal intent/pre meditation with the whole he had to paint his car bright pink and blue polka dots...

    Want to issue tickets, use remote radar/laser with camera and have a visibly marked cruiser issue the ticket down the road.

    Better yet, get more officers in vehicles visible from orbit patrolling on a more routine basis. Maybe tell chiefs, colonels, majors and all the other office staff to get in a car for half the day.

  7. #7
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    The first issue I have is for the safety of the officers. IF you are out of the car on a traffic stop, or investigating an auto accident, or just about any call for service for that matter, the marked vehicle helps to prevent other drivers from hitting your vehicle and/or you.

    I haven't done traffic enforcement in over 20 years (it never really has been my thing), but from what I remember, you really didn't need ghost markings on your car to find traffic violations.

  8. #8
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Note: I work plainclothes for a federal agency, so with regards to patrol tactics/practice, the basis for my opinion might stem for reasons closer to a regular joe than a cop. Another way of putting it is that I don't know jack squat about uniformed patrol operations.

    With that being said, I don't like the idea of unmarked vehicles for patrol, and I absolutely despise the idea of plainclothes cops conducting routine traffic stops. Reason being pretty much what you guys have already touched on.

    There's a reason that when conducting enforcement ops, it's common for federal agencies to ask for local uniforms to assist. At my last job on the warrant squad, we did it pretty much every time we hit a house. A trooper I talked with at one point had performed countless "directed stops" for feds, and after a spate of highway robberies by plainclothes cop impersonators they seemed unequivocally supportive of doing such. They "got it", and didn't consider it a nuisance.

    Even when stopping at houses to conduct interviews in smaller towns, I usually at least called the local PD (if not stopped by for a call history/introduction) to let them know where we were, who we were, what we were doing, and our contact info....and then I'd check out with them at the end. My best friend (prior cop for 8 years in a very aggressive anti-crime plainclothes unit) thought it was a little weird at first, but the local PDs always appreciated the heads up (as well as it showing some sort of deference/respect) and my buddy really got the point when somebody called the cops on us during a field stop. "No, mister, it's okay. Yes, we know who they are, they're real federal agents, and it's probably in your best interest to open the door and talk to them." After that he started doing the same thing.

    All of this is just to point out that there are certain considerations to being of reduced profile in LE operations, and it behooves us and IMO better serves the community for us to be as easily ID'd/verifiable as possible. I don't see any reason that routine traffic duties should be performed by an unmarked car, but I might be missing something given I'm not a street cop and would appreciate any input on the pros outweighing the cons.
    Last edited by TGS; 09-01-2018 at 01:46 PM.
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  9. #9
    Wood burnin' Curmudgeon CSW's Avatar
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    Cool

    As a profession, I build police vehicles for a living. I've done so since 1997. Witnessed the swap from rotators, to halogen to LED's, to now the 4th gen LED's.

    The first 'low profile' vehicle I built was without a lightbar, and all hide-aways; something mainstream and common today, but for the early 2000's.....whew!!!!!

    "Now a days", we install lightbars only about 40% of the time, the rest is the low profile style.

    Recently, the ghosting of the lettering is becoming very popular, well at least here in NH. NHSP and a few others have 'ghost vehicles' that mostly patrol highway and interstates.

    A lot of it is black vehicles, with retro reflective black lettering and emblems.


    Y'all be safe out there.
    "... And miles to go before I sleep".

  10. #10
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    No need to be sneaky.

    I used to sit on the side of the freeway with my lights on, and could tag speeders all day long at a minimum 30mph over. People would get so pissed and think I was pulling a fast one on them, because I was on the side of the road, with my lights on and running radar.
    Whether you think you can or you can't, you're probably right.

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