Looking to put together a very inexpensive AR

[HCM]

For the OP:

I have two M&P15-22s and they are awesome. Lost of fun and light if that is an issue.

Re building an AR upper (since you already have the lower), there are several Labor Day sales going on right now.

AIM surplus has a sale going on including FAXON and Ballistjc advantage AR barrels and other parts. ALG / Geissele also has 20% off for Labor Day - ALG rail and a BA or FAXON pencil barrel would be a good start to your GF’s new upper.

https://www.aimsurplus.com/catalog.a...Day+2018+Sale!

[Wake27]

I jumped on one of the $199 blem uppers PSA has been selling recently. I wish it was the LW, it’s got some weight at the end of the barrel. But it was complete for that price, all I needed was a rear sight. Considering how over gassed my recent Noveske barrel was, I’ll be happy as long as this runs. We’ll see on Sunday. But between potential quality problems and weight, I’d have to agree with the 15-22 recommendation, I love mine. It’s one of those guns that I appreciate the more I shoot it and my wife likes it even more than I do.


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[ranger]

I have multiple PSA uppers and so far are running fine. Tough to beat if you want a "cheap" AR. I typically do not shoot cheap steel case because I find it problematic in all my ARs - cheap or not. With the price of bulk brass 223/556 - the last of my steel case sits in the corner. I tend to shoot my 223 reloads most of the time. I have a "cheap" 16 inch PSA upper with a "pencil" barrel - that setup would probably be just right for your needs.

[JRB]

With all due respect, this is exactly why folks shouldn't use automotive examples when talking about firearms. Low pressure steel cased ammo isn't the same as using lower octane fuel. It's the same as using less fuel (more accurately, less air/fuel mixture) because ammo that generates less pressure uses less gunpowder. It's as if the throttle were limited to opening only halfway.

In other words, using full pressure ammo in a cheap AR isn't running a pedestrian automobile on high octane racing fuel. It's running a pedestrian automobile on pump gas WFO. Running an AR on low pressure ammo is like running any car no more than half throttle to save on gas and wondering why it won't keep up with traffic.

Likewise with respect - I've built a hell of a lot more engines professionally than I have rifles, and your dissection of my simile is even less accurate than it was to begin with.

My intent was to illustrate that something may be 'wrong' by one metric but that 'wrong' characteristic is simply optimization to accommodate another one to make the best of the configuration at hand - in this case an 'overgassed' AR by one specification might simply be tuned for the crap ammo it's going to be fed. On any gas operated weapon the gas port diameter is simply one variable in a larger equation of gas system length, ammo 'power factor', bolt carrier design/piston design, gas port location/dwell time, etc etc. This is not unique to AR's, building custom AK's or any other gas operated rifle requires attention to all of these and ammo is a variable, not a constant, unless you identify a specific load spec to be the only ammo it'll be fed.
Reducing overall performance somewhat to increase reliability on poor fuel is absolutely accurate to tuning engines.

We could get into the weeds of dynamic compression, combustion chamber design, piston design, spark plug location/configuration, intake air temp, intake manifold runner length, exhaust backpressure and exhaust runner length, and both delivered fuel mass and fuel octane rating and how that all ties together to determine detonation threshold and cylinder pressure at a given RPM - and why riding the threshold of detonation doesn't result in peak power or torque in most cases, but that'd be an un-needed thread derail.

Bottom line- cheap AR's should be able to eat steel case, and cheap AR's that are *not* reliable on steel case because they're not 'overgassed' is not a virtue. If it's a virtue for some, I'll just bow out and let you guys fill up hoopties with 101 octane race gas if that's what makes you happy.

[Casual Friday]

My experience with several PSA rifles, none of which being the PTAC or Freedom line, would be to spend your money elsewhere.

My kid's each have a M&P 15-22, they are fantastic rifles and a blast to shoot.

[WobblyPossum]

At this point, I’m leaning heavily towards buying an M&P 15-22, throwing a PA microdot on it and leaving the already completed lower alone. If my girlfriend ends up liking the .22 enough that she wants to get a centerfire AR, she’ll already be half way there. With the .22 she’ll be able to have fun and work on basically everything except recoil control.

Thanks everyone.


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[O4L]

Regarding shooting steel cased ammo in a PSA rifle...I had a complete SS Freedom 16" midlength upper that I only ran TulAmmo through. Never had a hiccup.

[MistWolf]

At this point, I’m leaning heavily towards buying an M&P 15-22, throwing a PA microdot

A good buddy of mine has a 15-22 and we've shot the snot out of it, suppressed and unsuppressed. It's been nothing but reliable and as far as I know, it's never had an out of battery problem. We shoot mostly Gemtech subsonic 22 LR out of it. The 15-22 is a lot of fun to shoot.

I got my wife a Primary Arms Micro Advanced (with rotary knob) and it's been the best non-Aimpoint red dot I've seen. Battery life is more than satisfactory and we haven't been able to shoot it apart yet. It's currently on a rimfire AR, but it's also spent time on 5.56 ARs and a 308 AR. Glass isn't as clear as an Aimpoint, but it still works well.

[DMF13]

I'd get this: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...516446780.html

Or this: https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-...ark-earth.html

Then look for an Anderson or PSA stripped lower on sale.

They also have some CHF kits, and complete rifles, but they are all with carbine length gas, and aren't worth the money IMO.