Originally Posted by DanM
Give me a call on Monday, and I should be able to make that happen for an Individual Officer Program (IOP) purchase.
Give me a call on Monday, and I should be able to make that happen for an Individual Officer Program (IOP) purchase.
Last edited by Craig@SSD; 08-31-2018 at 04:05 PM. Reason: clarity on IOP
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A more expensive option would be to buy a BCM upper, LW mid , put magpul forearm on. Don’t think of it as a cheap AR. Think of it as a spare upper for you that she shoots. That’s how I justified putting an aimpoint on a .22LR. It’s a spare for a my rifle
I also hadn’t considered an M&P 15-22. That might just be perfect. I’ll have to ask my girlfriend if that’s something she’d be interested in. Does anyone know if they’ve fixed whatever safety issue was being talked about last year?
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Ha I’m actually trying to trim down my battery of rifles since I have two and a spare already. I do like the way you think though.
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Agreed.
Don’t blame me. I didn’t vote for that dumb bastard.
Mistwolf, Greg - I don't want to get into the weeds with that but I'll simply offer this:
AR-15's are like the Small Block Chevy V8 of rifles. There's a lot of reasons to want a V8, some of them are fine-tuned high performance jobs and other ones just need to start every time and run on shit gas and make sure that truck gets where it's going.
Expensive AR's built for specific purposes are those fine-tuned high performance engines. They should expect to run (and perform!) on good ammo, and be fine-tuned to maximize everything possible (including reliability) with good ammo. Many of those benefits and performance improvements will come at the expense of ammo flexibility, same way that race engines don't drink regular 86 octane.
Cheap AR's, on the other hand, just need to work. I don't want to feed a ho-hum truck engine 91 or 93 octane pump premium, and I don't want to feed a $300 upper 35 cent ammo either.
So if a cheap AR needs to be 'overgassed' to run on that '86 octane' cheap steel case ammo, it isn't overgassed, its tuned properly for the intended use, fuel, and purpose.
PSA's are cheap truck engines of AR's, period. They should be able to drink any fuel like a cheap truck engine and they should be expected to run okay, but not set any performance records like a truck engine. The fact that I'm 1 out of 12 for running on steel case with a bottom-shelf AR vendor doesn't impress me any more than having a 200hp V8 that requires 91 octane or better wouldn't impress me.
Appleseed played some shrill hand-wringing CYA games about a freak incident with one, and they've banned them ever since. S&W took it very seriously but after inspecting the two rifles involved, they concluded that the problems were lack of cleaning and using non-recommended ammo. Appleseed then decided they didn't want to play CYA on ammo types for a given rifle and it was easier to ban the rifle entirely.
It was really disappointing to see that, as I liked the Appleseed program a lot and was looking forward to putting my nephew through it. But if they can't bother to put on their own big-kid pants with a simple policy requiring participants to ensure their rifles are clean and only using recommended ammo, I can't really hold their program in any kind of regard. The whole thing reeks of the kind of idiocy I expect from brain-dead LTC's that want risk assessments for using a goddamn wash rack.
Personally, I've got an early Gen I M&P 15-22 that went back to S&W for an extractor fix around ~1000 rounds, but I've had no other issues and I gave up trying to keep a round count a long time ago. Again, zero and I mean zero issues of any other kind.
Almost every time I bring anyone to the range it goes along, and it gets ~250 rounds down the pipe. If a new shooter, especially a young one comes with me, typically it'll see 1000+ rounds in an afternoon and in one egregious case, two teenagers went through five 550 round bricks of ammo in about 4 hours. Zero issues, either with safety or reliability. I'd guess I've cleared a malfunction once ever ~500 rounds or so, nothing out of line with a .22LR rifle.
I've cleaned it maybe 5 times ever and that was basically hosing it out with brake cleaner and compressed air, and re-oiling with whatever was at hand.
Two friends have later models - zero issues reported.
If one was exceptionally paranoid, you could simply replace the trigger group with an ALG or similar since the M&P 15 takes a lot of AR pattern trigger groups.
Of course, do your own research and come to your own conclusion, but I personally believe the whole 'safety issue' was profoundly overhyped on account of Appleseed's CYA games.
At current prices, why not just buy a Colt?
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
This is my first thought in general.
I do like the M&P sports for just a plinking/training gun. I have a gen1 with about 6500 rds or so on it with no issues whatsoever.
In OPs position, I would probably call SSD and just get that M&P for her and safe up that lower for a rainy day.
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With all due respect, this is exactly why folks shouldn't use automotive examples when talking about firearms. Low pressure steel cased ammo isn't the same as using lower octane fuel. It's the same as using less fuel (more accurately, less air/fuel mixture) because ammo that generates less pressure uses less gunpowder. It's as if the throttle were limited to opening only halfway.
In other words, using full pressure ammo in a cheap AR isn't running a pedestrian automobile on high octane racing fuel. It's running a pedestrian automobile on pump gas WFO. Running an AR on low pressure ammo is like running any car no more than half throttle to save on gas and wondering why it won't keep up with traffic.
Last edited by MistWolf; 08-31-2018 at 08:07 PM.
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Not odd at all. PSA has had inconsistent quality for a long time. Some good some bad. Trouble is you never know exactly what you are going to get.
They also have at least 4 different lines or quality levels.
The PSA and PSA premiums were a good bet, especially when the were still offering the CHF barrels.
The PTAC and Freedom stuff not so much.
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