A-men.Originally Posted by Sidheshooter
I seem to remember Mr.Givens saying carrying a e.g. G17/19 doesn’t mean you shoot more, it means you can reload less.
That comment made an impression on me. I do find my LCR in my pocket more these days (it is now, in fact, typing this on the couch) but I would prefer to have my G19 or G26.
@Lost River great post.
Last edited by RJ; 09-03-2018 at 04:56 PM.
I've always found it to be really weird logic when someone says they don't plan on trying to stop an active shooter because of the risk of being on the receiving end of friendly fire. Whatever that risk is (and I think it's way overblown), it's lower than the risk of being killed in the fight with the asshole(s) who is trying to murder as many people as possible. If dealing with the murdering asshole(s) has the higher risk it makes no sense to not do it over the lesser risk of being hit by friendly fire. That's like not driving because you may get murdered while walking to your car.
This is why I moved from my beloved K frames to PX4s. I'm a pretty decent revolver shooter, but having to worry that much less about having to reload permits giving more attention to the threat and has less stuff that could go wrong.The point I would make is that perhaps they should not look at the high capacity semi auto as an opportunity to shoot a lot, but an opportunity to manipulate less. The large on board capacity of the typical G17/19, etc allows a person to focus on the threat, look for an exit, shield loved ones, block a door, etc, instead of reloading. The fact is that they have options.
Any documented cases of a civilian CCH permit holder involved in a "good shoot" reloading during the incident?
About the only way I can see stopping a mass shooting is if I have the good luck to be behind the shooter when he starts his rampage, regardless of type of handgun I have on me.
REPETITION CREATES BELIEF
REPETITION BUILDS THE SEPARATE WORLDS WE LIVE AND DIE IN
NO EXCEPTIONS
I feel that an honest answer about "should I or shouldn't I?" is going to come down to "It depends."
An organization posted pretty much that question on Twitter the other day, and to their question "What do you do?" I answer "Observe - Orient - Decide - Act". Which was mostly a smart ass answer, but really until the balloon goes up, you cant say much else. My responsibility is to myself and my family, and any friends I may be with, and all we should be doing is evacuating, but if I see some dirtbag about to execute a bunch of handicapped nuns and orphans I hope I have the wherewithal to do the right thing.
My only concern is that if I DO get taken out by a responding SWAT team, that I am cleared in the aftermath and my widow is taken care of.
Recovering Gun Store Commando. My Blog: The Clue Meter
“It doesn’t matter what the problem is, the solution is always for us to give the government more money and power, while we eat less meat.”
Glenn Reynolds
If you choose to act in this type of situation, is it not likely that, since it is an outlier situation to begin with, that it will not be the typical civilian “3/3/3” gunfight/defensive shooting? And being an outlier already, is it not possible that as it lasts longer, has a more committed perpetrator(s), and may involve movement, that your typical Jframe or single stack .380/9mm, or even a service pistol, may go dry without the fight being concluded satisfactorily? In such a circumstance, a reload will not only be a comforting thing, but may be a necessary thing for you to survive and prevail.
There are gunfights that have gone like that. The status of the defender in that extremity has not mattered: police, military, or civilian, they have needed more than the onboard ammunition, and they have succeeded or failed based on the presence or lack of additional ammunition and efficiency in reloading and getting back in the fight. I say that because it could be a real fight, not just a typical short range, short duration, only onboard ammunition required defensive shooting.
Last edited by Duelist; 09-04-2018 at 03:39 AM.
^
This.
Misses are a thing, too. Not to make real life a game, but USPSA stages have a max round count way lower than what most shooters have on their belt when they start any given stage. If you can miss under game stress, you can damn sure miss under real stress, and if going up against a rifle-wielding bad guy (or bad guys) with only a pistol isn't real stress, I'm not sure what would qualify. Primary plan for me if I ever find myself in that situation is avoid/escape, but if that's not possible, I'm pretty sure I'll wish I had more ammo on me, not less.
Bravo! Seriously, you've distilled a HUGE percentage of the problems I encounter when I try to train fellow shooters into a single line. I'd add "shoot a lot FAST." If I had a dime for every agent who's complained that I spend too much range time focusing on fundamentals and accuracy over "tactical" shooting (which they interpret to mean any hit on the silhouette is a good hit), I could have retired YEARS ago.
Or the ever popular "combat shooting" which is code for missing what you were actually aiming at but with an impact that still counts for score.
Last edited by ST911; 09-04-2018 at 10:02 AM.
الدهون القاع الفتيات لك جعل العالم هزاز جولة الذهاب
Fixed for you. The case I remember where the cop used a crap ton of rounds was finally ended when he realized he was low, focused on the fundamentals, and made the hits required to end the fight. Of course this officer drew the wrong lesson, IMO, and now carries a crap ton more ammunition.
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