Keith's heavy .38

[entropy]

Good info. Some of those 2400 loads seem...well a bit “toasty”.

[KevH]

How safe is Keith's .38 special load in modern guns like m10s and m64s?

I'm referring to the 168 grain cast Keith bullet over 13.5 grains of 2400 in .38 special brass.

I was too lazy to read through this entire thread, and I'm sure someone already mentioned it, but that's a 38/44 load. I wouldn't try it in a K-frame.

[Jim Watson]

That is even heavier than stock .38-44 158 at 1150.

Elmer said of the then-new Model 19 that he considered it adequate for factory magnums (No 125 screamers in those days) but that he would shoot it with his "heavy .38 load."

Skeeter Skelton loaded the 155 gr gas check with 13.5 gr 2400.

And Phil Sharpe shows .38 Special loads for strong guns THE SAME as .357 Magnum. 1510 fps and all.

Keith and others thought 2400 was a great improvement over the old No 80 powder for heavy revolver loads.

[Wayne Dobbs]

With regard to the heavy .38 Special loads in the guns of legacy gun writers, it's useful to understand that if they wore out revolvers from the abuse of overpressure loads, they only had to make a call and a new gun would be on the way, gratis. Also, I doubt they shot near the volume of rounds through their guns that a serious IDPA/ICORE/USPSA shooter would do today that would fully expose how hard these loads were on the guns.

[Spartan1980]

Skeeter Skelton loaded the 155 gr gas check with 13.5 gr 2400.

He also used the Lyman 358156 mold which had 2 crimp grooves. The normal groove was for magnum loads in magnum cases. He used the 2nd groove which in a .38 case spaced the bullet out to approximate .357 mag OAL. This increases case volume which lowers pressure a little. I only mention this in case someone uses a normal 158 SWC with the same charge. They might get a rather nasty surprise.

[Jim Watson]

Yes, but Elmer and Phil didn't.

[revchuck38]

Yes, but Elmer and Phil didn't.

At least Elmer used the 358429 which pretty much filled a .38/44 HD chamber to the mouth. I found out the hard way that you can't crimp that bullet in the crimp groove in .357 brass and use it in an M27. Good thing I had an M19 to empty those cartridges!

Current commercial .38/.357 158-grain LSWCs are designed to fit in M27/28 chambers when loaded in .357 brass. They're seated pretty deep.

[Jim Watson]

Yup.
Phil Sharpe said his SWC weighed less, had shorter bearing, and cast closer to diameter, hence gave higher velocity.

[45dotACP]

Part of me really wants to stick some 125 gr HPs on top of 8.0 gr of Power Pistol just so I can use up what's left of an 8lb keg.


And also because fireballs rock

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[BN]

Also, I doubt they shot near the volume of rounds through their guns that a serious IDPA/ICORE/USPSA shooter would do today that would fully expose how hard these loads were on the guns.

I think I read somewhere that Elmer Keith only fired 12 rounds of .44 Magnum per week.