AAR - Chuck Haggard Practical Revolvers 8-12-18

[TCinVA]

Both of those are target quality revolvers with typically tighter tolerances than a model 10 or model 13 for instance. I’d suggest your annecdote is typical of those guns in that they weren’t designed for steady field use without maintenance.

That's a fair point.

I would theorize that the era the gun was made in plays a role, too. For instance, this model 10:

Attachment 7356

...was made, if I remember correctly, in the mid to late 1950's. It's a lovely revolver, but she will not reliably run through 500 rounds without cleaning.

A more modern revision of the model 10 might well run through a higher round count without complaining. I have a former DOC 64-6 that might be fine through a few hundred rounds without cleaning if I was using reasonably clean-burning FMJ .38 SPL ammo in it. It's a very different gun than the old model 10.

I have a model 28-2 made in 1966 (pinned barrel and recessed cylinders) that doesn't like to keep running if she's dirty. Enough residue builds up in the cylinder and causes a round to sit even the tiniest bit proud and the cylinder drags enough to increase the pull weight dramatically. And that's supposed to be the cop version of the N frame .357 lineup.

Most of my revolvers were manufactured before 1980 and I wouldn't bet on any of them running more than 100-150 rounds without cleaning...and with many of them I'd be surprised if they ran through that many rounds without exhibiting some sort of problem.

[Totem Polar]

This thread has taken an interesting turn. I’ll just add that I regularly run my wheelies to 500-ish rounds without doing anything to them, but seldom beyond that.

The first big name class I ever took was the 40-hour LFI-1 course wih Mas back in ‘94 or so; ran that with a stock NY-1 and didn’t clean it until I got home.

The last class I took was ECQC with Craig a couple of months ago, and I ran that with an early 90’s 640 .38 only centennial, and I didn’t clean it until several weeks later.

Neither of those are high round count courses, by any stretch, but they’re enough to brown and black the guns up a bit.

I’m shaking out the 3" K6S I just bought, and I just cleaned it after 354 rounds of wildly mixed ammo, not because it needed it, but because I wanted to paint the front sight dot with an orange sharpie stick, so I was maintaining it anyways.

I sure am glad to see high quality folks endeavoring to both preserve and rediscover revolver techniques and secrets. Good stuff to have in reserve.

JMO.

[Wheeler]

That's a fair point.

I would theorize that the era the gun was made in plays a role, too. For instance, this model 10:

Attachment 7356

...was made, if I remember correctly, in the mid to late 1950's. It's a lovely revolver, but she will not reliably run through 500 rounds without cleaning.

A more modern revision of the model 10 might well run through a higher round count without complaining. I have a former DOC 64-6 that might be fine through a few hundred rounds without cleaning if I was using reasonably clean-burning FMJ .38 SPL ammo in it. It's a very different gun than the old model 10.

I have a model 28-2 made in 1966 (pinned barrel and recessed cylinders) that doesn't like to keep running if she's dirty. Enough residue builds up in the cylinder and causes a round to sit even the tiniest bit proud and the cylinder drags enough to increase the pull weight dramatically. And that's supposed to be the cop version of the N frame .357 lineup.

Most of my revolvers were manufactured before 1980 and I wouldn't bet on any of them running more than 100-150 rounds without cleaning...and with many of them I'd be surprised if they ran through that many rounds without exhibiting some sort of problem.

One model was a 10-2. They started shipping those in 1961, the current 10-8 probably dates to the late 70's or early 80's. I haven't checked the serial number. The 4" 12-2 shipped between 1962 through 1977. That one had more rounds through it than any of the others. I shot IDPA with it for two years just because I could. The 686 CS1 was either produced from 1987-1992 or only in 1988, depending on which sources you chose to believe. It's not a PC gun, it was made to Customs Service specs but has held up remarkably well. That particular gun has been through a couple of high round count classes as well as an IDPA Nationals, a dozen or so state or regional matches, and countless IDPA matches. I've even shot IPSC and USPSA with it. I consider that particular pistol an exception rather than the rule. The two .22 J frames I mentioned are recent production, but they are .22's which are typically dirtier than most any centerfire ammo. I usually run bulk ammo, the Federal Red Box sold at Walmart is currently my favorite. Now that's not speculation on my part. What I've provided you with is actual experience based on thousands of rounds through multiple S&W revolvers running for several hundred rounds at a time without cleaning. Some are over fifty years old and still chug along in a yeoman like manner.

In regards to your Model 28. It's not a purpose built cop gun. It's a Model 27 that has a dull finish and less bling, most noticeably the checkering on the top strap. Parts swap out between the two guns, the tolerances are the same, the sights are the same, so forth and so on. Even parts from the model 520 will swap out between the three. The 686 CS1's are purpose built guns because they were built to a set of specs provided by the Customs Service to S&W. The NY1 model 64's and the GPNY GP-100's are purpose built cop guns because the NYPD provided S&W and Ruger with a set of specs. The model 68 is a purpose built cop gun because... you get the idea. The Model 28 is a less shiny model 28.

Revolvers aren't the equal of modern semi automatic pistols in regards to abuse or high round counts. Neither are they fragile relics of a bygone era. Like any mechanical device, they will run well with care. Running one requires a different set of rules than your modern bottom feeder.

[revchuck38]

i'm finding these revolver classes very tempting. After I retire in November, I'll have more free time and may just attend some. I'm a few hours driving distance from Dagga Boy and the DFW area. If I do, I'd be very tempted to run my four inch nickeld 29. Why? Because it's vintage operator as fuck.



If you're getting that kind of service out of a battery of revolvers on a regular basis, you're definitely an outlier. Baby, my cherished Model 27, will go about fifty rounds before at least a little lube is required. The model 14 I used for Bullseye was tight enough that a hundred wadcutters would make it start to drag. Revolvers are simply more user involved across the spectrum.

If you do run that nickled 29 in a class with Dagga Boy, please give me a heads-up. I'll bring my nickled 4" M57 no-dash.

I seem to have had better luck than most running my revolvers. The most I've shot in one day was over 700 rounds through my 4" M67-1 at a Ray Chapman class. I used Zero swaged RNLs over enough Titegroup to make ~825 fps. I think I cleaned under the extractor start and brushed the chambers out at lunch time. The bore remained spotless but the cylinder and top strap were black by the end of the class and required Break-Free, 0000 steel wool and lots of elbow grease to clean. I used it and a M10-8 for IDPA and never had problems with them locking up due to fouling during practice or matches. I don't remember having issues with my M14-3 when I used it for Bullseye, either.

[Trooper224]

If you do run that nickled 29 in a class with Dagga Boy, please give me a heads-up. I'll bring my nickled 4" M57 no-dash.

I seem to have had better luck than most running my revolvers. The most I've shot in one day was over 700 rounds through my 4" M67-1 at a Ray Chapman class. I used Zero swaged RNLs over enough Titegroup to make ~825 fps. I think I cleaned under the extractor start and brushed the chambers out at lunch time. The bore remained spotless but the cylinder and top strap were black by the end of the class and required Break-Free, 0000 steel wool and lots of elbow grease to clean. I used it and a M10-8 for IDPA and never had problems with them locking up due to fouling during practice or matches. I don't remember having issues with my M14-3 when I used it for Bullseye, either.

To be objective, the 14 and 27 I mentioned are two of the tightest S&Ws I've ever owned. In fact, the 14 is probably the tightest. I've never fired anything but lead, HBWC's out of it and that could be the issue as they're hardly the cleanest load around. When I'm shooting the 27, I have a small bottle of Ballistol I always have to break out around the 40-50 round mark. I do have a nickeled Model 10 snub nose that I enjoy shooting and I can't remember ever having any issues with it. A shooting session with the 29 is usually a 50 rounds and done kind of thing, so I've yet to experience any of those issues with it. My current batch of Colts don't get shot enough to cause any issues to rise.