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Thread: R12 shell lifter

  1. #1

    R12 shell lifter

    A few weeks ago I mentioned teaching two shotgun blocks at the NW TacCon. A shooter was running an R12. The design of the shell lifter was blocking the rounds from being unloaded directly from the tube. I thought this odd.
    Per the owner's manual, the rounds should be cycled through the action for unloading.
    It still strikes me as odd.



    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  2. #2
    The R in F.A.R.T RevolverRob's Avatar
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    Aren't these just Versamaxs renamed with a short barrel?

    If so - Enos folks have figured it out: https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/1...ding-versamax/

    There is a reference there to the military manual for the Benelli M4 - it can be found here - http://www.homedefenseweapons.net/wp...USMC-M1014.pdf and illustrates how to do this (page 26).

    Seems like you have to push HARD on the lifter.

    Is the R12 out there for mass consumption yet or is it still strictly LEO and MIL?
    Last edited by RevolverRob; 08-16-2018 at 10:13 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    Aren't these just Versamaxs renamed with a short barrel?
    I do believe they are the Versamax.

    The Benelli manual illustrations show the U-notch in the lifter. The R-12 has a lip in the lifter that is blocking the rearward travel of the shell. I personally tried removing the shells to, and I was not able to do so. With my M1, I have to sometimes finesse the rounds over the lifter. That didn't work here due to the lip.

    The owner's manual directs one to cycle the rounds through the action.

    Last edited by jlw; 08-17-2018 at 07:44 AM.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  4. #4
    I have that same issue with an after market lifter in a Benelli.

  5. #5
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    Cycling through action seems to be the most common method for unloading pump and auto loading shotguns--even if the manual says otherwise. The Mossberg 500 Series guns can be unloaded by removing shells from the mag tube, but accomplishing this feat is not always easy. Usually, I cycle anyway.

  6. #6
    Member Wheeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    Cycling through action seems to be the most common method for unloading pump and auto loading shotguns--even if the manual says otherwise. The Mossberg 500 Series guns can be unloaded by removing shells from the mag tube, but accomplishing this feat is not always easy. Usually, I cycle anyway.
    It is by far the most common method but many instructors are trying to move folks away from that method. Claude Werner was teaching folks to not cycle to empty back in the early 2000's when he still taught shotgun classes. I'm not sure where he picked it up.

    Simply put, if there's an alternative to cycling rounds through the action, it's the preferable alternative as it's more better and more safer.
    Men freely believe that which they desire.
    Julius Caesar

  7. #7
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    That makes sense. I was never able to unload 870's, 1100's, or 1187's any other way than cyling. 99.9% of my shotgun experience is field shooting which is not relevant to range training or police work. I've considered reducing mag capacity in field pumps and semi auto's to one shot. Unloading is then accomplished with one pull of bolt handle. Seldom have I needed a third shot.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by willie View Post
    That makes sense. I was never able to unload 870's, 1100's, or 1187's any other way than cyling. 99.9% of my shotgun experience is field shooting which is not relevant to range training or police work. I've considered reducing mag capacity in field pumps and semi auto's to one shot. Unloading is then accomplished with one pull of bolt handle. Seldom have I needed a third shot.
    870s are very simple to unload without cycling the shells.

    It is important to keep in mind that the safety on a shotgun is only a trigger safety. It does not block the firing pin or keep the internal hammer from falling. It is possible for the hammer to fall when working the action. Furthermore, shotgun ammo is fragile by comparison to rifle and pistol ammo. Running it repeatedly through the action can lead to problems.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  9. #9
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    For me cycling means ejecting chambered shell and then turning gun on its side to allow the next up shell to fall from action. Repeat until all are removed. Done this way, zero shells enter chamber. I agree that removing shells by manipulating shell stop is a better method. I haven't been able to do so without fumbling but will practice the procedure. At one time Winchester 94 lever action 30-30 rifles were common on prison pickets and are probably still used by high riders--field guards on horseback armed with rifles. The 94 is unloaded by cycling through action. ND's on pickets have occurred because of cycling. The rifles were unloaded and reloaded after each shift change. Ditto for shotguns.
    I agree that sensible safety procedures are paramount. Old ways of handling firearms are not necessarily better even if they were once taught.

    I haven't seen this discussed and invite comment. Police shotguns are transported in vehicles with an empty chamber. What's acceptable? Dry firing on the empty chamber or not doing so and then using action release button in order to work action to load chamber in case of need to fire weapon.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    870s are very simple to unload without cycling the shells.

    It is important to keep in mind that the safety on a shotgun is only a trigger safety. It does not block the firing pin or keep the internal hammer from falling. It is possible for the hammer to fall when working the action. Furthermore, shotgun ammo is fragile by comparison to rifle and pistol ammo. Running it repeatedly through the action can lead to problems.
    The trick unloading an 870 directly from the tube, is to use your index finger (or whichever one you use) to pull the base of the shell away from the barrel after you release the shell stop. That lifts it up over the depressed lifter, otherwise it hits the lip of the lifter and won't come out. I had to relearn this after using Mossbergs exclusively for awhile. Works for Winchester Defenders as well. Hope that makes sense.

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