2018 Eotech

[spinmove_]

This...

For me the bottom line is that the EO is a great concept that is not well executed with regard to engineering or manufacture. It is full of fleas with regard to emitter design, battery usage, battery connectivity, hologram delamination, switch convenience, predictability/integrity of adjustments and day to day loss of zero. I didn't put that out because of whom I work for, but based on tons of actual use and training on the sights. A good day in that very professional training operation was 20% of the EOs down. A bad day approached 40% down. As Darryl Bolke later characterized them, "they're an aquarium for your iron sights." As a positive, they've likely conducted the very best subliminal marketing campaign of any piece of tactical firearms gear by their pervasive "free gear" programs to various movie, TV and video game production companies over the past 20 years or so, which helped sales tremendously. It also tells you that most males will buy it because they've seen it on TV or in a movie and not because of objective reasons of performance in hard use. I can make an EO work for me, but I quit seeing the reason to try several years ago based on experience, not advertising or Internet forum discussions.

So for those of us with pesky astigmatisms in both eyes, are the newer Aimpoints (H-2/T-2, CompM5) friendlier in that arena or should I just seriously consider relegating myself to an LPVO? I haven’t been able to find one locally to look through.

For reference an Aimpoint PRO gives me a comet with a tail that spills right and the Trijicon MRO gives me a lovely starburst on more usable levels.


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[Wayne Dobbs]

So for those of us with pesky astigmatisms in both eyes, are the newer Aimpoints (H-2/T-2, CompM5) friendlier in that arena or should I just seriously consider relegating myself to an LPVO? I haven’t been able to find one locally to look through.

For reference an Aimpoint PRO gives me a comet with a tail that spills right and the Trijicon MRO gives me a lovely starburst on more usable levels.


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I have an astigmatism in my left eye that was somewhat corrected by LASIK back in 2001, so I'm a sample of one. I find some distortion in the legacy Aimpoints (PRO, CompM2/3/4) and in the first generation Micros (T-1/H-1). If I focus on the dot or magnify the dot on these, it can be distracting. If I use the sight like I'm supposed to with a target focus and operational speed superimposition of the dot followed by the trigger press, I don't notice the distortion.

On the second generation Micros and the CompM5, all the distortion is gone (for me). My advice to folks with this eye issue is first to GET GLASSES to correct it. Next, it's not to look for distortion, but simply see the dot and take the shot. Your wobble/error zone is lots bigger than the dot's distortion area anyway. Try a second gen Micro (I recommend the T-2 highly) and see what you get. Let me know if I can help you out with any Aimpoint matters!

[GJM]

What is interesting, is while Aimpoint owns the tactical market for red dots, I can’t remember seeing a single Aimpoint being used by a PCC competitor at a USPSA match.

Rob, please elaborate on this principle thing, and what you think it means for what companies you will and will not do business with, and for how long.

[texasaggie2005]

@spinmove_

In my experience in the last couple of years buying & selling optics to see which is best for my astigmatisms; the M5/T2 is significantly better than the ACO/PRO and the T1/H1. The MRO kinda fell in the middle of that heap.

FWIW, I now have a LPVO and pretty much plan on never running an RDS again until the next evolution occurs.

[spinmove_]

I have an astigmatism in my left eye that was somewhat corrected by LASIK back in 2001, so I'm a sample of one. I find some distortion in the legacy Aimpoints (PRO, CompM2/3/4) and in the first generation Micros (T-1/H-1). If I focus on the dot or magnify the dot on these, it can be distracting. If I use the sight like I'm supposed to with a target focus and operational speed superimposition of the dot followed by the trigger press, I don't notice the distortion.

On the second generation Micros and the CompM5, all the distortion is gone (for me). My advice to folks with this eye issue is first to GET GLASSES to correct it. Next, it's not to look for distortion, but simply see the dot and take the shot. Your wobble/error zone is lots bigger than the dot's distortion area anyway. Try a second gen Micro (I recommend the T-2 highly) and see what you get. Let me know if I can help you out with any Aimpoint matters!

Thanks, Wayne. I’ll see if I can find a LGS that’s got a T-2/CompM5 that I can look through. I already have glasses that help correct the astigmatism, but if I’m responding to a “bump in the night” I may or may not have the time/presence of mind to throw those glasses on before grabbing a gun and/or light to investigate. Being able to use the dot sans glasses (as my eyes aren’t that terrible from an overall clarity standpoint) would be super helpful.


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[Shipwreck]

I used the Mepro21 with the triangle reticle for years. I did not like the bullseye version. But with the triangle, you use the tip of the triangle for precision shots, and cover the target with the triangle for quick shots.

If you have issues with a red dot and your eyes, you will have no problems with the Mepro21

[spinmove_]

@spinmove_

In my experience in the last couple of years buying & selling optics to see which is best for my astigmatisms; the M5/T2 is significantly better than the ACO/PRO and the T1/H1. The MRO kinda fell in the middle of that heap.

FWIW, I now have a LPVO and pretty much plan on never running an RDS again until the next evolution occurs.

I love the LPVO concept in that it gives me an etched reticle, generous eye relief, and an illuminated reticle. The problem is that most LPVOs are either ridiculously expensive or they’re constantly being upgraded. So I can get a 1-4 or 1-6 now being relatively afford able, but later I’ll have something different available to me for my backup/training carbine with more magnification and/or different reticle. Matched pairs are handy as it makes the transition seamless.

Heaven forbid if my wife decides she actually wants to give a crap about her own personal defense. Then I’ll be looking at a 3rd and possibly 4th sample of equipment. Then instead of one $1,000-$2,000 optic I’m looking at 3-4 of them. No bueno when I run pistols more than anything. I’d rather keep the unit price lower and rely on it as long as possible for what it is than chase the upgrade train.


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[rob_s]

Rob, please elaborate on this principle thing, and what you think it means for what companies you will and will not do business with, and for how long.

that's up for you, and danm apparently, to decide for yourselves. I think you were both already pretty clear.

[Default.mp3]

This is covered in the video linked on page one.

Garand Thumb didn't explain it at all either, so I just wasted 5 minutes of my life clicking though and being forced to watch him chuckle at the word "thot".

Pretty sure it's just a misconception/marketing spin. Yes, EOTech's marketing claims as such, but it makes no sense if taken literally and not based off of some hack that deals with the limits of human perception.

My searches indicate this is exactly the bullshit being pulled, that the center dot is actually much smaller than 1 MOA, but due to how the human eye perceives point light sources, it appears to be about 1 MOA to the human eye without a magnifier. Under a 3x magnifier, it will appear about the same size as an unmagnified 1 MOA dot; under a 6x magnifier, it will appear about the same size as an unmagnified 2 MOA dot.

[texasaggie2005]

I love the LPVO concept in that it gives me an etched reticle, generous eye relief, and an illuminated reticle. The problem is that most LPVOs are either ridiculously expensive or they’re constantly being upgraded. So I can get a 1-4 or 1-6 now being relatively afford able, but later I’ll have something different available to me for my backup/training carbine with more magnification and/or different reticle. Matched pairs are handy as it makes the transition seamless.

Heaven forbid if my wife decides she actually wants to give a crap about her own personal defense. Then I’ll be looking at a 3rd and possibly 4th sample of equipment. Then instead of one $1,000-$2,000 optic I’m looking at 3-4 of them. No bueno when I run pistols more than anything. I’d rather keep the unit price lower and rely on it as long as possible for what it is than chase the upgrade train.


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I hear you, it all adds up quick when doing duplicates. I lucked out and traded my CompM5 for a Trijicon Accupoint 1-6. It's not a popular optic now days, but I really like it for my purposes.