This!! +infinity. also on the other hand the TactiCool student who pulls up in a Hummer with 5.11 or Blackhawk everything, knee pads, elbow pads, Oakley Goggles, Kevlar gloves, Operator pants, Converse desert tan boots, Electronic muffs with microphone attachment, KaBAr knife in small of back that sweeps everyone and cant hit his target for sHi&!Originally Posted by Chipster
Last edited by irishshooter; 03-10-2011 at 08:31 AM.
On PF you can actually say Shit...
Students who've been to other classes and have absolutely closed minds to anything that isn't in line with "So and So". I've always tried to show different aspects of certain issues (safety is not one of them), but you always seem to get the ass who says "Well soandso said this and that and the other...... but then still can't hit shit because he didn't even take soanso's instruction.
"We do not rise too the level of our expectations, rather we fall to the level of our training"
Archilochus, Greek Soldier
O's R: fwiw, the advice I've been given by folks far more experienced than me, and which I try to follow, is to let the So-and-So Worshipper do it his way (as long as he's safe, of course).
I try to explain what I do and why I do it. From there, if a student absolutely positively prefers to shoot while standing on one foot and pulling the trigger with his pinky, as long as he keeps the muzzle in a safe direction he can knock himself out.
True.
You made it clear you would show us how you recommend doing something but IF we chose to do it some other way (as long as it is safe) just to tell you, "I'm not doing it that way.", and you'd leave us alone. That definitely gained you respect in most people's book. You could tell just by looking at everyone's face.
Good post.
I recall the first few classes I took (most with the same instructor) it seemed like we probably had well over a dozen, maybe 16 students with 1 instructor. All shooters were on the line at the same time. I learned from those classes but mostly because I was on the front end of the curve (didn't know anything) and was paying attention to the guys in the class (like TAP) that I had already figured out what knew what they were doing. I received very little 1-1 interaction from the Instructor.
Only when I started taking classes from quality instructors (most which had AI on site) that had students shoot in 2 squads did I really feel like I was getting individual attention. It makes a world of difference.
Regarding AIs. I took an advanced level class once where there were approximately 15-18 students, 1 main instructor, 3 AIs and and admin type guy milling around. The AIs were all former students (but did have NRA Instructor certificates) that might have been class standouts but they added very little to the class. In fact, during a couple of demos I saw them hanging out behind the line playing gun fight with blue guns, twirling them on their fingers, etc. They were back there chatting incessantly and general annoying the piss out of me. I made sure to point it out in the class evaluation. NO idea if it helped as I've not taken any further classes from that outfit. Too bad too since the lead instructor was excellent.
EDIT: It's also in poor form for an instructor to OC spray a student in the face by surprise. Just sayin'.
Last edited by VolGrad; 03-11-2011 at 08:06 AM.
I agree, but shouldn't the instructor vet students prior to admitting them to an "advanced" class?
Lack of a written lesson plan is not always a sign of being unprepared. Some guys have been doing for so long that their lesson plans and drills are imprinted into there permanent memory. I use a written lesson plan because I have the memory of a 93 year old but some guys know it by heart. I use the plan to make sure that no vital points are missed.
If someone is running crappy gear, it is your responsibility to let them know it. They are paying for your knowledge and experience and this is part of it. If somebody shows up with a $12 gun show holster or a HiPoint you can be certain that I'd talk to them about their choice of equipment. They are welcome to disregard my advice but I owe it to them to steer them in the right direction.
You can't always judge a book by its cover. I've had some pretty sloppy, laid back instructors who were awesome and some who were so concerned about their wardrobe and image that they didn't have much to offer beyond being pretty. I certainly fall into the sloppy camp, dress wise, but I don't think that influences who I am or how I teach. Pressed 5:11s, Multicam, and school shirts don’t make an instructor.
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As to vetting students, it just doesn’t consistently work. I’ve seen guys with all sorts of “advanced” this and that certificates from big name schools/agencies that sucked. It’s not uncommon and most schools give you a certificate for finishing and not shooting anyone else as long as the check clears the bank. I’ve also seen guys who spent the last 20 years as a recreational shooter and gun queer that absolutely rocked because it was their passion.
That is a lot different than making fun of or ridiculing a student in front of the class. Constructive criticism is actually quite professional, the other isn't even remotely acceptable.
I've only participated in two "professionally" taught classes, both by the same instructor. They were free, and I assume were meant to get his name out there so he could start charging fees, but I may be wrong. The AI comment is spot on. The AI this instructor had was one of his previous students and apparently spent a whole bunch of money on guns and ammo, but having shot with her in the past, I knew she couldn't hit the broadside of a barn from the inside. She was trying to demonstrate the "crush grip", but couldn't and ended up really just being an additional student since quite a few of us had significantly more training and experience than her.
My take on it was that he allowed her to be an AI because she's a younger, not unattractive woman and he's an old retired dude.
It was free, so it was worth the money.
When in doubt, thirty out.
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