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Thread: Holster Selection for Plainclothes Work

  1. #1
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    Holster Selection for Plainclothes Work

    My agency recently unclinched a little bit with regard to the criteria governing holster selection so we are on the cusp of approving some additional holsters. I would appreciate any informed opinions on this as I view holster selection as pretty important for a variety of reasons. Since the mission is supposed to drive the gear train, let me throw out some things that might be relevant.

    Presently all duty weapons are full sized Glocks. I am trying to get approval for the G19 for smaller folks and those who mostly drive a desk. This seems to be a surprisingly uphill battle so that may not happen. We have a few folks running a SF X300 daily.

    We adopted the Safariland ALS as soon as it came out. We had some custom kydex belt mount plates made to make them ride a little tighter.

    The job is probation work. So we are not fooling the clientele as to whether or not we are armed - they know we are. A concealment garment is a requirement and we settled on the modern looking 5.11 fleece type vest for that. (Different holster selection could change this - I hope).

    Not every officer is a meat eater. We have some slighter built folks who could have real problems if one of our convicts squared off with them, thus weapon retention has always been a significant concern - hence the ALS.

    The ALS has been great in certain aspects thus far. Very very fast considering the level of active retention and just a rock solid build. But, they are not a lot of fun when squeezing a large human into a small vehicle cockpit (especially with a weaponlight). And the smaller folks in particular walk around with a pistol tumor on their side.

    Under consideration would be an open-top AIWB holster as long as the retention can be adjusted so the pistol would not just fall out of the holster if it was turned upside down. Same thing for a kydex rig for 3:00 o' clock carry as well. Either of these would obviously be much lower profile than the ALS which, in turn, will hopefully allow us to largely ditch the 5.11 vest and go to something more sleek and which would blend much better. I, specifically, am pretty stoked about the possibility of being able to carry AIWB with an untucked polo. That's all well and good in that, I am a larger dude and not involved any enforcement ops on a regular basis. I wonder how all that would play though for a smaller female officer.

    It has been a while since I played with AIWB while wearing concealable armor. Might be some confliction there, but hopefully I can work that out. Heck, maybe the armor will hide the pistol a little.

    We frequently, and unavoidably, find ourselves solo in relatively cramped quarters with the bad guys (think house trailer) - although generally not under openly adversarial conditions (as odd as that may sound). I guess I am wondering if the trade-off of comfort and concealment over having the ALS active retention system (just the thumb latch, not the hood), is worth it.

    My other point of pondering is with regard to weapon retention with AIWB over 3:00 o' clock carry. My understanding, and own thought process, is that it is quite a bit harder to take a pistol from someone carrying AIWB than 3 o' clock. I would think this actually goes double for LE since we do not traditionally carry AIWB, thus a crook lunging for a pistol would likely go to the 3 o' clock first - and come up with nothing - thus allowing the officer to get ahead of the curve a little. All that said, every bit of this would be wishful thinking if the crook were to simply work toward the goal of beating the officer unconscious and then taking the weapon, ALS or no....

    So, can anyone comment on whether or not AIWB is actually going to be superior from the aspect of weapon retention? And are there any legit resources where I can see what that might look like? (I suspect a certain Mr. Douglas might be a good resource on this...)

    And for the 3 o' clock kydex crowd, how much are we giving up there do you think?

    Perhaps I have put too much faith or hope in the ALS system to date; but I made that decision for my agency in hopes of giving my folks the best chance of not getting shot with their own weapon.

    I am fairly well-versed in the choices of holsters available. Anything from JM Kydex would likely be at the top of the list, but if anyone has any specific suggestions, I would like to hear that.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Lon's Avatar
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    Having been a Detective working plain clothes I would never suggest using a holster without some sort of active retention like the ALS or a thumb break when dealing with shit birds like you do. If I were you I’d stick with a Safariland ALS or GLS of some flavor. I preferred the 6378 w the additional 6006 added.
    Last edited by Lon; 08-11-2018 at 04:15 PM.
    Formerly known as xpd54.
    The opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not reflect the opinions or policies of my employer.
    www.gunsnobbery.wordpress.com

  3. #3
    I think the idea of making the G19 available is great. Going from an active retention holster concealed to a friction retention holster open carried in a situation you can expect to make arrests, would seem a trail to tears. For open carry in soft uniform, my choice is the 7367 ALS/SLS but I've noticed that I'm somewhat out of step with the more cutting-edge folks.
    -All views expressed are those of the author and do not reflect those of the author's employer-

  4. #4
    AIWB is easier to defend a gun grab on since you can “collapse” on to the weapon with your body. Not to mention it being in front of you, you don’t have to worry about a sneak-from-behind grab.

    Though not rated as a retention holster, I’m fond of the 537 GLS holster. Lower profile than your typical offerings, and SouthNarc has given it a moderately favorable review:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Safariland-537
    “Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”

  5. #5
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    With a few job related exceptions, an ALS holster is the only option I would consider. I would rather have an ALS for a Glock 19, sans light, than any other option out there.


    You have to conceal your firearm ? Why?
    Last edited by TheNewbie; 08-11-2018 at 05:14 PM.

  6. #6
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    Plainclothes holsters are always a matter of compromise. If the thing is too awkward or uncomfortable to wear, you bring on a whole array of problems. I tried an ALS holster when I wore soft clothes at the academy. I found the thing so bulky that I eventually went to a Safariland thumb-break pancake holster. I felt the high and tight position of the holster offered sufficient retention for what I was doing. OK, we didn't make make lock-ups at the academy, but the other instructors refused to let me drive to lunch for fear that I'd jump a patrol call and drag them into a cluster. (And, hey, I was better off than the county instructors with the issue Serpa.)

    I'm somewhat unclear regarding what level of concealment is required by your command staff. With 5.11 fleeces and ALS holsters, this sounds like concealment is very much a wink-wink/nod-nod/Bob's-your-uncle set up. It sounds like you might be better off being quasi-overt with a soft uniform and some type of duty belt/holster for home visits unless true concealment is necessary.

    While I understand both the concealment and tactical pluses of AIWB carry, I'm not sure all your troops will go for it. This is especially true given a comparatively large pistol and a striker-fired system. I'm not sure what other equipment you carry and if this will affect AIWB carry, espeically with armor.

    I do like the 537 holster. While not high retention, it does offer a better system than most plainclothes officers utilize. I obtained one because I was attending an IALEFI conference before rollout of our soon-to-be issued FNS-9 pistols and needed something. I suggested it as a holster for our detective bureau. While the DeSantis thumb-break pancake holster served them well with SIG 226's and 239's, I felt the thumb-break had the potential of being captured against the slide by the thumb and fouling presentation. That said, what do I know and they went with the thumb-break.

    Overall, if you want some degree of concealment and some degree of security along with fast presentation, I'd go for the 537 system.

  7. #7
    I’ve worked a plainclothes narcotics assignment for the last 8 years. I carry a G19 (for years it was a 1911 Commander) concealed in a JMCK OWB holster. However, if we “vest up” for whatever reason and my gun is exposed, I switch to a Safariland holster with retention.

    Several years ago, I ended up in a fight over my gun on the side of the road. It was concealed, but became exposed while I was fighting with the guy. My holster was a leather OWB with no retention (I hadn’t been worried about retention, because I figured no one would ever see the gun). I had rolled up on a wreck, and had no idea the driver was wanted for multiple armed robberies in another jurisdiction. It’s a pretty bad feeling when someone has their hand wrapped around your gun. It’s a worse feeling when you’re not using a retention holster.

    Also, I can’t imagine carrying AIWB with a vest on. I don’t believe that would work well. I’d also recommend the Safariland 537 holster.
    Last edited by TC215; 08-11-2018 at 07:28 PM.

  8. #8
    Doesn’t sound like true concealment is what you guys are going for. Sounds more like out of sight kind of thing.

    AIWB is a good concealment method for some things. Wearing open front cover garments like your 511 fleece and driving a desk aren’t it IMO.

    In my totally inexperienced opinion, stick with something OWB at the traditional 3-5 o’clock position and go with some level of retention. If your “clients” know you’re armed what’s the purpose of serious concealment? Getting protection from a grab would be more important to me.

    I like the ALS system. It’s easy to use and does a good job at keeping things secure. However a good pancake with thumbsnap would work as well. I think raven used to offer a thumbsnap version of the Phantom. Wonder if JMC or DSG offer that as an option. Would be best if both worlds. Nice low profile with retention.

  9. #9
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    To address a couple of questions raised about the concealment requirement, in a word "policy." The gun has to be covered from plain view. On occasion, this has taken the form of a polo shirt one size too large covering the pistol. So, gun tumor. Don't even get me started on that... The 5.11 fleece vest represents the most practical concealment albeit with an odd visual signature. We get odd looks from waitresses and soccer moms. The crooks and cops know.

    The GLS looks to have some promise. Frankly, I was aware of that system when Safariland rolled it out, but two things put the brakes on that. One, the ALS holsters were proven by that time and I was reluctant to switch retention release methods (again). We had gone from thumb-break to SERPA (for about five minutes) to the Bianchi Auto-lock (horrendous fail) to the ALS. All this in what was probably 12 - 18 months. Two, the GLS was too reminiscent of the Autolock for my liking. Once bitten and all that.

    All that said, the GLS looks like a viable compromise. As noted, these are not true retention holsters, but they may hit that sweet spot between a decent ride and decent retention. it is beyond my comprehension why Safariland won't make a true concealment holster with active retention. It would seem that even the ALS system could be slimmed down considerably. It is Safariland's insistence on bolting every holster body to the same plate that keeps them from making a better mousetrap. I would love to see something with a Phantom footprint combined with the ALS thumb system. Apparently that is too much to ask.

    The concealment requirement is a pain in the butt about 9 months out of the year. That said, for our purposes, it is probably the right call. I will say that I continue to be amazed at holster choices of some folks. I work with some guys who transport prisoners on a daily basis. They are all rocking some sort of Phantom knock-off, and have been for years. Wild stuff.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCountyGuy View Post
    AIWB is easier to defend a gun grab on since you can “collapse” on to the weapon with your body. Not to mention it being in front of you, you don’t have to worry about a sneak-from-behind grab.

    Though not rated as a retention holster, I’m fond of the 537 GLS holster. Lower profile than your typical offerings, and SouthNarc has given it a moderately favorable review:

    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Safariland-537
    If the powers that be approve this will they also approve the addition of a SCD to issued G19 pistols?
    Last edited by Jason M; 08-11-2018 at 09:11 PM.

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