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Thread: Quick "Technical" Question on the 590 vs. 870

  1. #1
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    Quick "Technical" Question on the 590 vs. 870

    The first firearm of any sort that I bought was a Wingmaster 870. On more than one occasion, I short-stroked that thing resulting in the gun getting tied up to the point of having to pull the barrel off to clear the malfunction. I understand that Remington later came out with the Flexi-Tab feature (not exactly sure what that does) to address that. Last winter I bought my first Mossberg 500. In playing around with that one, I cannot seem to get it to "double feed" (not sure what we call the malf that is induced when short-stroking the pump and getting a shell hung on the lifter). The feeding and extraction system on the Mossberg just seems super positive all the way around.

    My questions are: Will current 870s still go down hard if short-stroked? And, am I correct in thinking that the 500/590 series of Mossbergs simply will not malfunction in the same way?
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    As a side discussion, I would also ask, if it turns out that the 870's have not resolved this issue of getting completely bitched up when short-stroked, and the 500 series pretty much doesn't - why would anyone choose the 870 over the 500 series for defensive use? I get that the fit and finish on the Remmy is *generally* better than on most Mossies, but if one gun has the potential to completely lock-up, I have a hard time understanding why anyone would choose that for defensive use.
    [That old Wingmaster was a thing of beauty, but the action never did slick up. I ended up trading into an 11-87 that I still have. No regerts on that trade. I know 11-87s have a reputation for being finicky, but mine has never missed a beat despite some pretty serious neglect in the cleaning department. I just wish it wasn't so dang heavy.]

  2. #2
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    The Flexi-Tab upgrade involves three parts, the lifter, the bolt carrier, and the bolt. The lifter has a notch shaped like a “U” on the bottom, the bolt carrier has side clearance cuts, and the bolt is notched at the bottom. The parts have been designed to allow such a jam to be cleared but do not prevent such a jam. In other words, you can still jam an 870 with these parts by short-stroking it. In the event that one does encounter a jam, it can be cleared by holding the forearm and slamming the buttstock on the ground. It may be possible to muscle the action open without slamming the stock on the ground, but my experience has shown that "grenading" the butt stock is the most consistent. That method, however, can crack or split a wood stock.

    I cannot speak to the Mossberg guns, but the difference in carrier operation suggests to me that the same type of jam is not possible with the 500/590 guns.

    As for 870 usage, training is a big deal, and I was taught to run the slide as hard as I can as I am not going to break it. And I also practice clearing the jam as it can also occur if a shell latch fails.
    Last edited by farscott; 08-07-2018 at 05:57 AM.

  3. #3
    My 870 was one of the newer Express models but it was several years back that I had it. It would do precisely what you described if short stoked, I think it's called the "death jam". I was able to clear it just by muscling the action, but I can assure you that's the last thing you want in a SD situation. It got sold off.

    My current 590A1 won't do that. If I short stroke it all I get is an empty chamber. It also throws the empty hulls much much farther than the 870 ever dreamed of not that it really matters or pertains to this issue but I was never able to get real positive ejection from the 870.

  4. #4
    Is the bolt closed when you have the double feed, or is it open? Regardless, I would buy new shell latches and replace them. Note that they do not need to be staked to operate properly. Staking only makes reassembly easier if you remove the trigger group.

  5. #5
    Member feudist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farscott View Post
    The Flexi-Tab upgrade involves three parts, the lifter, the bolt carrier, and the bolt. The lifter has a notch shaped like a “U” on the bottom, the bolt carrier has side clearance cuts, and the bolt is notched at the bottom. The parts have been designed to allow such a jam to be cleared but do not prevent such a jam. In other words, you can still jam an 870 with these parts by short-stroking it. In the event that one does encounter a jam, it can be cleared by holding the forearm and slamming the buttstock on the ground. It may be possible to muscle the action open without slamming the stock on the ground, but my experience has shown that "grenading" the butt stock is the most consistent. That method, however, can crack or split a wood stock.

    I cannot speak to the Mossberg guns, but the difference in carrier operation suggests to me that the same type of jam is not possible with the 500/590 guns.

    As for 870 usage, training is a big deal, and I was taught to run the slide as hard as I can as I am not going to break it. And I also practice clearing the jam as it can also occur if a shell latch fails.
    This is the root of almost every jam up I've ever seen with a shotgun. People pull it open and push it back. No! Run it like you're mad at it.

  6. #6
    Site Supporter farscott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feudist View Post
    This is the root of almost every jam up I've ever seen with a shotgun. People pull it open and push it back. No! Run it like you're mad at it.
    I agree. The 870 action had it basis in the 11-48 design, and the recoil-operated gun cycles a lot harder and faster than any person can run the 870. The goal is to run the slide as fast and as hard as you can.

  7. #7
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    Groovy. Thanks for the explanations.

    Spartan - the way my 500 kicks the shells out is part of what I was referring to in terms of the positive feeding and extraction process. It may not make any practical difference that it kicks the hulls way out yonder, but it sure does inspire confidence. I also dig the unobstructed loading port. And I like the placement of the slide release better too.

    I know people bust on the 500 series saying that pump feels all loosey goosey and sloppy, but to me, it makes it easier to run it hard as noted. I dunno, for such a "low quality" product, the design seems to have some things going for it. [Mossberg could probably help themselves by concentrating on quality control and forgetting about all the gimmicky stuff they come out with like the chainsaw handle and the Flex system.]

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