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Thread: For the Skeeter fans

  1. #61
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    Ed McGiverns book has always been held up as an iconic shooting piece, but I find it a bit dry and him quite wordy (why say simply in one or two sentences when a long paragraph with no breaks can be used?)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Watson View Post
    I had the reprint of 'The Bullet's Flight' by F.W. Mann and found it very dense, even in the edition with Harry Pope's marginal notes reproduced.

    I read Fast and Fancy revolver Shooting and No Second Place Winner back to back (or nearly so). The latter was an enjoyable read and the former a slogfest. Some of it might be the style of writing at the time as well. I've had this for 10 years or more and never can get into it:

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    I enjoy reading about shooting .22s but this was written in 1932 and very hard (for me) to make any headway. Dense might be a good description in addition to being written in a very proper style. High English if you will. I've always had difficulty reading "dry" text and some of the older stuff can certainly qualify. Peter Kokalis always seemed to pick topics that were right up my alley but he could make them as dry as a desert carcass. I might as well have been reading the TM.

    I'm afraid my 20+ years on the internet has affected my ability to sit down and actually read anything more than a couple of paragraphs. If my mind starts to wander I end up skimming instead of reading then things don't make sense so I have to go back and re-read what I just skimmed. I end up spending twice as long and learning half as much.
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  2. #62
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    I read Fast and Fancy revolver Shooting and No Second Place Winner back to back (or nearly so). The latter was an enjoyable read and the former a slogfest. Some of it might be the style of writing at the time as well. I've had this for 10 years or more and never can get into it:


    I'm afraid my 20+ years on the internet has affected my ability to sit down and actually read anything more than a couple of paragraphs. If my mind starts to wander I end up skimming instead of reading then things don't make sense so I have to go back and re-read what I just skimmed. I end up spending twice as long and learning half as much.
    I think in McGiverns case, it was just his personal style. he was an outstanding pistol shot and somewhat of an experimenter, he just wasnt a very good writer, or didnt have a very good editor. I can wade through it because the subject matter being interesting to me, as is his level of expertise, if some being a bit dated, but its not riveting reading other than seeking the nuts and bolts of how he did things and thought, and seeing into the time window of the 1930s.

    I have some great reloading manuals, they are able to give me tons of interesting information, and I can actually enjoy sitting down and reading them time and again looking for information. Can you geek out on ballistics charts and drop figures for various bullets and loads at 600 yards with various zero ranges? I sort of see McGiverns book in a similar light. Not something most would read for sheer reading pleasure, but if youre looking for specific information, and enjoy that aspect, its there.
    “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  3. #63
    Member jtcarm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awp_101 View Post
    AFAIK EK was a rancher and outdoorsman with the ability to convey his thoughts and results in writing rather than a professional writer.

    I’ll also say I’m not a huge fan based on a single reading of Sixguns. I found his reviews interesting (like when Great Western got their act together) but the hunting and shooting stories came across as arrogant and bombastic.

    I suspect part of the problem is a lack of context (why was he stopping his car to shoot partridges? Lunch? We’re they a nuisance animal around there? I have no idea). He was in a part of the world I’ve never visited and made his name in a time before my parents were born.
    I agree about the arrogance.

    As for shooting the partridge, I’m sure it was to eat. In that time & place, it was the same as stopping by the grocery store on the way home to pick up a fryer for dinner (I was afraid even that analogy was pushing the envelope of generational comprehension, then remembered this is a revolver forum[emoji6])

    My grandfather used to pot doves with his Colt Woodsman. In an era when people counted out pennies to make purchases at the store, .22 LR cartridges cost a fraction of what shotgun shells did. Hunting & fishing was as much about putting food on the table economically as sport.

    I’m sure old timers like him are looking down and shaking their heads at all the goofy shit today’s “sportsmen” spend money on just to shoot a deer or catch a bass (and then not eat it!)

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by jtcarm View Post
    I agree about the arrogance.

    As for shooting the partridge, I’m sure it was to eat. In that time & place, it was the same as stopping by the grocery store on the way home to pick up a fryer for dinner (I was afraid even that analogy was pushing the envelope of generational comprehension, then remembered this is a revolver forum[emoji6])

    My grandfather used to pot doves with his Colt Woodsman. In an era when people counted out pennies to make purchases at the store, .22 LR cartridges cost a fraction of what shotgun shells did. Hunting & fishing was as much about putting food on the table economically as sport.

    I’m sure old timers like him are looking down and shaking their heads at all the goofy shit today’s “sportsmen” spend money on just to shoot a deer or catch a bass (and then not eat it!)
    I look at the old sustenance hunters as being proud of their abilities to provide for their families. Remember that this was back in the era of the General Stores, and that supermarkets, malls, and megamarts were yet to be invented. I think that living off the land made most of them seriously independent old cusses, and their levels of self-confidence would be characterized as arrogance these days. As a kid growing up, I was surrounded by these types of guys, WWII & Korean War Vets, originally from the country, and trying to make a living in the cities after serving their country.
    Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem
    I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude
    -Thomas Jefferson
    I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by jtcarm View Post
    I agree about the arrogance.

    As for shooting the partridge, I’m sure it was to eat. In that time & place, it was the same as stopping by the grocery store on the way home to pick up a fryer for dinner (I was afraid even that analogy was pushing the envelope of generational comprehension, then remembered this is a revolver forum[emoji6])

    My grandfather used to pot doves with his Colt Woodsman. In an era when people counted out pennies to make purchases at the store, .22 LR cartridges cost a fraction of what shotgun shells did. Hunting & fishing was as much about putting food on the table economically as sport.

    I’m sure old timers like him are looking down and shaking their heads at all the goofy shit today’s “sportsmen” spend money on just to shoot a deer or catch a bass (and then not eat it!)
    Quote Originally Posted by 358156hp View Post
    I look at the old sustenance hunters as being proud of their abilities to provide for their families. Remember that this was back in the era of the General Stores, and that supermarkets, malls, and megamarts were yet to be invented. I think that living off the land made most of them seriously independent old cusses, and their levels of self-confidence would be characterized as arrogance these days. As a kid growing up, I was surrounded by these types of guys, WWII & Korean War Vets, originally from the country, and trying to make a living in the cities after serving their country.
    The firearm I would most like to own is the crack barrel .22 my grandfather had as a kid in the Great Depression in West Virginia. He had no idea what the make/model was, and by the 1980s when we talked of such things was a little fuzzy if it was a .22 Long or a .22 Long Rifle. He did distinctly remember that he'd repaired the cracked stock by wrapping wire around it. It did for some animals that most folks wouldn't be in too big of a hurry to eat, and believe it or not a doe. It is long lost to time, but I'd love to think some hillbilly still uses it. My great-grandfather had been mustard gassed in WW1 and was in the VA hospital in Clarksburg more often than he was out, so it often fell to my grandfather to get things done.

    I think for the vast majority of modern people, "going hunting" is an activity they do at a specific time for a specific species, to the exclusion of all other activities. A couple generations back, you kept something handy around because you never might know when you might run into something edible whilst engaged in some other activity.

    Modern life has lead to the demise of the "foraging gun." Through The Depression, there was actually a .30-30 small game load, with IIRC correctly a 110 grain bullet. Shotguns have always been popular due to the ability to take different species with different ammo. Things like the Savage 24 really puzzle modern hunters, but if you want something that can do for both birds and deer, to carry around, or more likely throw behind the truck seat, or keep in the cab of your D9 dozer while you were working, they make perfect sense.
    I was into 10mm Auto before it sold out and went mainstream, but these days I'm here for the revolver and epidemiology information.

  6. #66
    My grandfather was one of those hunters who put a lot of meat on the table. They weren't destitute but they never let an "opportunity" go to waste. He grew up in the '20s and would hunt most every day. Lots of birds from dove to ducks, possum (yes they used to eat them and actually liked them), rabbits, or squirrels mostly. The family got a lot of meat on the table from him and he had 4 siblings so nothing was wasted. He would go after school most every day and since he was so regular the drug store owner (is druggist the correct term?) would break open a box of shells and sell him one or two at a time knowing he would buy the rest of that box before long. From that experience he never had much interest in anything centerfire because his 16ga shotgun was a lot more versatile for him. He had a .22 but for him a shotgun did everything he wanted to do.

  7. #67
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lester Polfus View Post
    ...I think for the vast majority of modern people, "going hunting" is an activity they do at a specific time for a specific species, to the exclusion of all other activities. A couple generations back, you kept something handy around because you never might know when you might run into something edible whilst engaged in some other activity.

    Modern life has lead to the demise of the "foraging gun." Through The Depression, there was actually a .30-30 small game load, with IIRC correctly a 110 grain bullet. Shotguns have always been popular due to the ability to take different species with different ammo. Things like the Savage 24 really puzzle modern hunters, but if you want something that can do for both birds and deer, to carry around, or more likely throw behind the truck seat, or keep in the cab of your D9 dozer while you were working, they make perfect sense.
    I consciously directed my life towards a lot of outdoor living, much of it spent with various lever carbines in hand. In Az pistol calibers and 30-30s were generally plenty for "walk around guns". I mainly used full power loads in the 30-30 for rabbits and similar. I later started loading round ball loads in the 30-30 that were similar to 22 LR usefulness, 115 gr cast at around 1200 fps were similar to 32-20 or 9mm power range, both had moderate to low muzzle blast, with the magazine left loaded with the standard full power loads. These did fine for grouse hunting and dog walking in the rockies, but in more serious grizzly country, a 45-70 or 348 with round balls worked fine for small game or grouse with a bit more horsepower in case of possible unpleasant interactions with bears. I loved that you could hunt small game (cottontails and jack rabbits) year round in Az. i didnt do it all the time, but liked that I could, and often did a couple times or so a month when out and the urge struck. I ended up spending about 5-6 years being semi-nomadic, living in the tipi, off the motorcycle, or out of the back of my truck on average 10 months/year out. I loved the morning and evening walks with the dog and carbine in hand. I still do evening walks with the dog and carbine around the cabin.

    I loaded small game and grouse loads in several rifle calibers, a 200 gr jacketed flat point at around 1500 fps in the 338 Win Mag being one, but they were "hunting guns" not day to day walk around guns.

    In Az when deer hunting, we often took 2 rifles, the deer rifle, then late morning when the deer settled in, we unslung our 22 rifles and hunted squirrels with CB loads or short hollowpoints until mid afternoon when the deer started moving some again. Good times. Some years we certainly made more meat from squirrels than deer, since it wasnt a given to get a deer.

    I had a Savage 24 Camper in 22 lr/20 ga for a number of years, I liked the idea of it, but hardly ever used it, Im not a huge shotgun fan, and dont generally like picking shot from my meat. im also not a huge bird hunter besides grouse, which can be hunted with a 22, pistol or rifle, or light loads in rifles. The 24 eventually was sold. I hope the new owner got more use from it.

    My grandfather was born in a log cabin in the midwest in 1898, he hunted for family food, and sold some game to the local butcher. he became more civilized later in life, but he still had some old habits. dad told me that grandpa would get up very early, open the window a few inches, stake out an ear of corn in his town yard, and wait for squirrels to show up. hed shoot one or two with shorts in his ancient Spencer 22 single shot and have them for breakfast, generally before most of the world was up and operational. Unfortunately he passed when i was very small, he had some good adventures, I wish id been able to know him and learn more of his life firsthand.
    Last edited by Malamute; 01-28-2022 at 10:56 AM.
    “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  8. #68
    Ready! Fire! Aim! awp_101's Avatar
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    FWIW I love the turn this thread has taken…
    Nothing so needs reforming as other people's habits - Mark Twain

    Tact is the knack of making a point without making an enemy / Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?

  9. #69
    Site Supporter entropy's Avatar
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    Perhaps more of a reloading question but it fits here.

    Do the older 94s (pre-64 specifically early 50s) have a reputation for shallow throats?

    I’ve experimented with all types of cast bullets for my 94. All of the 150-170gr types I’ve tried have the same issue of jamming into the rifling when chambered. Several styles won’t even let me fully close the lever. No issues with any of the typical 150-170gr jacketed. The only cast that seem to work are some 135gr Acme’s that I can’t get to shoot worth a hoot. The bullets I’ve tried are all high quality either from Montana or Matt’s.
    Working diligently to enlarge my group size.

  10. #70
    The whole production run has that reputation. And opinions about the bestbloading practices vary wildly.

    Some buy narrow tipped mold like those from Lee to avoid rifling engagement as best as possible. Some like to see/feel a touch of engagement when chambering. Some load lighter bullets to get the tips that much further back. Some order custom molds based on their leade. Some only shoot jacketed bullets.

    I've run the gamut and am about to cast - no pun intended - my lot in camp Lee.

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