FL Parking Lot Shooting

[RevolverRob]

Some of y'all might need to put yourself in the shoes of the victim.

You come out of a store and someone is aggressively shouting into the window of your car at your wife/girlfriend/baby mama/daughter - Are you standing there and waiting for them to politely stop? Or are you going to get them away from your loved one?

I agree that there are some options the victim could have used before shoving the perp away. He could have stepped in between them and "gotten in the face" of the man who was yelling at his girlfriend. Or he could have used deescalation tactics to move the guy away from the vehicle and his loved ones. But what I see is a guy acting pretty damn reasonable when he shoves the perpetrator of this crime to get them the fuck away from his girlfriend and mother of his child. He saw a man screaming and gesturing at his loved one and moves him away from them. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing. Hopefully, I would de-escalate and move them away from my wife with words and actions, but if I came out of a store and found a guy screaming at my wife, my first response would be, "GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM HER!" Followed by a substantial effort to move said individual away from her. To include use of force.

Simultaneously, this guy has tons of time to not shoot this guy, but he does any way. Couple this with him being the instigator of this incident to begin with, him having a history of being the parking police, and him using bad judgement. I hope he goes to jail for a long time and his assets are sold to pay restitution to the victim's family and provide a now fatherless son with a good education.

Seriously, if you can watch that video and think the man who got shot was wrong - I don't know want you to be right.

[WobblyPossum]

Andrew Branca posted a short analysis of this incident on his Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/posts/cotw-florida-20318837

Now I'm really curious how this plays out because he's saying it is unlikely that a prosecutor would be able to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that this shooting didn't meet the standards for self defense. I still disagree based on the video but I'm open to other opinions/options.

[HCountyGuy]

Andrew Branca posted a short analysis of this incident on his Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/posts/cotw-florida-20318837

Now I'm really curious how this plays out because he's saying it is unlikely that a prosecutor would be able to convince a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that this shooting didn't meet the standards for self defense. I still disagree based on the video but I'm open to other opinions/options.

Quite simply your average juror doesn’t view the incident in the same way we do.

To them Asshole 1 (shooter) verbally berating female for parking in handicapped spot does not necessitate a blind-sided shove to the ground by Asshole 2 (deceased). Because gosh darn it we’re more civilized than that. So of course Asshole 2 essentially escalated the encounter and “kinda asked for it/had it coming” at that point. Also I’m sure the defense attorney will argue a particular disparity of force between Assholes 1 and 2.

If Asshole 1 does get convicted, I’d be surprised but not upset.

[Mark D]

You come out of a store and someone is aggressively shouting into the window of your car at your wife/girlfriend/baby mama/daughter .

Just seeking clarification. Several folks have referring to the shooter yelling/shouting/screaming. Do we know that he was actually doing that, and not just talking? The video doesn't have audio, and I couldn't tell the tone or volume of his voice from what i saw. I assumed he was not yelling, but just speaking, albeit in snarky, a**hole kind of way.

For the record, I'm not defending either party. But I'd find it easier to understand the shove if the shooter was yelling or otherwise threatening the woman.

[critter]

Quite simply your average juror doesn’t view the incident in the same way we do.

To them Asshole 1 (shooter) verbally berating female for parking in handicapped spot does not necessitate a blind-sided shove to the ground by Asshole 2 (deceased). Because gosh darn it we’re more civilized than that. So of course Asshole 2 essentially escalated the encounter and “kinda asked for it/had it coming” at that point. Also I’m sure the defense attorney will argue a particular disparity of force between Assholes 1 and 2.

If Asshole 1 does get convicted, I’d be surprised but not upset.

At the end of that video Mr. Branca also sums up the Sheriff's determination: "...on these facts it is possible but arguably not likely that a prosecutor could convince a unanimous jury that self defense had been disproven beyond a reasonable doubt."

The way Mr. Branca articulated the available facts, that determination does make legal sense. I still have a little trouble seeing the shooter as being in "imminent danger" at the moment he fired, but I get it when broken into the individual pieces.

[LorenzoS]

Notwithstanding the legalities of this being a good or bad shoot, I am sure the guy wishes he never appointed himself hall monitor of the handicapped parking space. Even if he was in a should shoot situation, it never would have happened if he didn't act like a dick in the first place.

[Zincwarrior]

The defense has the burden to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, affirmative defenses, while if the defense raises a colorable claim of a justification defense, the burden of proof switches to the State to prove that the defendant was not justified in his/her actions. The differences between affirmative defenses (such as entrapment or insanity) and justification defenses (such as self-defense or necessity) is outlined in Arizona Revised Statutes 13-205 https://www.azleg.gov/viewdocument/?...s/13/00205.htm.

Thanks! Hope to never need it in real life!

[Zincwarrior]

Quite simply your average juror doesn’t view the incident in the same way we do.

To them Asshole 1 (shooter) verbally berating female for parking in handicapped spot does not necessitate a blind-sided shove to the ground by Asshole 2 (deceased). Because gosh darn it we’re more civilized than that. So of course Asshole 2 essentially escalated the encounter and “kinda asked for it/had it coming” at that point. Also I’m sure the defense attorney will argue a particular disparity of force between Assholes 1 and 2.

If Asshole 1 does get convicted, I’d be surprised but not upset.

That depends on the jury makeup. Another jury might see this as an excuse for a gun happy shooter to shoot someone.

[RevolverRob]

Just seeking clarification. Several folks have referring to the shooter yelling/shouting/screaming. Do we know that he was actually doing that, and not just talking? The video doesn't have audio, and I couldn't tell the tone or volume of his voice from what i saw. I assumed he was not yelling, but just speaking, albeit in snarky, a**hole kind of way.

For the record, I'm not defending either party. But I'd find it easier to understand the shove if the shooter was yelling or otherwise threatening the woman.

Not for sure we don't.

But in general when someone raises their hand from a calm position to start aggressively pointing as the shooter does in this case raised voices come with it, as does a tone and attitude shift.

Also the OP article notes:

A witness saw Drejka and Jacobs arguing before walking into the store. While inside the convenient store, the witness alerted the clerk of the argument occurring in the parking lot.

Given the distance to the door from where the argument took place, unless the witness walked right past these two having a quiet conversation, chances are good that voices were raised. I know when I "witness" an argument in public, it is almost universally because the volume associated with it is above normal conversation volume. And honestly, such an argument would have to be loud and be substantial enough for my to warrant letting the clerk of the store know. As in, "This looks like it might turn into a full on fight in a minute." Kind of deal. Otherwise, I'd probably just ignore it.

That's me, other folks are different, I'm just trying to put myself in the shoes of a potential juror here. What's reasonable about this and what isn't?

Frankly, I have a hard time thinking a reasonable and rational person would strap on a gun and play meter maid, but then again - I've seen that shit play out before (and nothing about my situation was rational, so rationality isn't on the table here). Which makes me question the decision making of the shooter, entirely. (In short, I'd probably not be a good juror for this trial).

[Trooper224]

Bad shooting created by a bag of dicks.

Don't be a dick and park in the handicapped space.

Don't be a dick by playing parking lot monitor.

Don't be a dick by pushing the other dick to the ground.

Don't be a dick and shoot the other dick.

Morality play: being a dick can get you killed or raped in the prison shower.

Will the shooter walk? Given Florida's history, I wouldn't be surprised if he did.