FL Parking Lot Shooting

[JRB]

This is ugly and all involved are assholes, that is absolutely safe to say.

But I am astonished at how many people here expect us to take a hit like that out of nowhere from an attacker we didn't even see, and make flawless decisions about our assaliant's ongoing intent *immediately* with 100% accuracy.

That sets a really shitty precedence, and one in *defense* of the asshole that started the physical fight to begin with, with an attack that could have caused serious if not severe injuries.

[blues]

Such philosophical and legal territory has been covered before, easily accessible via the handy menu called the “search” box. Without direct knowledge of the context behind this event, we are simply blind speculating.
The article is not an objective source , and video also omits context. Since the press is our only source about this event , we don’t know whether this was or was not justified...or really anything beyond that someone got shot in a parking lot, and it’s on tape. We are just as likely to draw the wrong conclusion at this point as the right one, which is why I believe we should wait until this incident is heard in court before discussing if this is justified.

Alternatively, if someone who was there is authorized to offer comment that will suffice as well. But as Zimmerman’s case proved, truth is not a guarantee when dealing with press releases.

I guess we just fundamentally disagree. So be it.

[Chance]

I can't listen to the audio where I'm at. Was the guy that did the shoving saying anything during the incident? Would that change where this sits on the 'Ability / Opportunity / Jeopardy' Venn diagram?

[HCountyGuy]

I can't listen to the audio where I'm at. Was the guy that did the shoving saying anything during the incident? Would that change where this sits on the 'Ability / Opportunity / Jeopardy' Venn diagram?

To the best of my knowledge there is no audio available.

[Hambo]

I posted this in the other thread: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/.../0776.012.html



Defensive use of force:

(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.

Forcible felony:

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Agg Batt:

784.045 Aggravated battery.—
(1)(a) A person commits aggravated battery who, in committing battery:
1. Intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement; or
2. Uses a deadly weapon.

So in FL you need to be in fear of imminent death, GBH, or a forcible felony. On the forcible felony list, aggravated battery is probably the only one that would apply. However, that's not simple battery, it's GBH, disability, etc.

My informed guess based mainly on cases from the other side of FL is that it will come down to the SA believing a disabled man was in fear of great harm, or a man was looking for trouble by repeatedly playing parking cop.

[Nephrology]

I do not think this was an appropriate use of lethal force whatsoever. I do not really think I would want to be stuck in an elevator with anyone involved with this incident, but that does not diminish the tragedy of a child growing up without his father. I sincerely hope the shooter is punished in the judicial system for his actions.

[41magfan]

It's fairly obvious (to me at least) that there are a whole bunch of folks clueless about self defense law. It goes a bit deeper than a basic understanding of Ability - Opportunity - Jeopardy, believe me.

IMO, Andrew Branca (http://lawofselfdefense.com/) is doing the best work in educating people on the subject and I would encourage anyone/everyone to get plugged in to his ongoing work and the book he has written.

You can start by taking this short simple test. If you can't answer these questions correctly, you might want to take that as a clue.

http://selfdefensequiz.com/quiz116229426

[Zincwarrior]

I figured this topic warranted its own thread rather than continue in the “Shooting Incidents in the News” thread, simply because of the magnitude of the incident.

For those of you just joining us, here’s the incident:

https://www.wfla.com/news/pinellas-c...ing/1312474223

I’ll go ahead and say my piece:

I think we’re seeing a second take of the Trayvon/Zimmerman incident to some extent. There’s some glaring similarities:

Guy who is armed goes to confront somebody. Guy gets knocked to the ground and then shoots his assailant. I recognize the details aren’t exactly similar, but they get close. Even the racial divide.

Honestly, I think it was a bad shoot.

Having said that, I think the shooter might just get off. Given what people know and don’t know about self-defense, I can see a jury becoming convinced that the shooting was justified. Guy yelling does not particularly necessitate a violent reaction. Since he was needlessly knocked down and didn’t know what could happen next, he reasonably feared further assault and shot the physical aggressor.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong, though.

Florida law is a bit deviant in that the burden of proof is on the prosecution to prove the use of lethal self defense was not reasonable.

[SafetyFirst]

Definitely three idiots merging at the same time to cause a shit storm. I just would like to say it seems like the victim pushes the person to the ground and keeps moving forward while pulling his shorts up. Then has a gun pulled on him. Only when the gun is being pulled does the victim start moving backwards. And is shot in the chest.
So how do you feel about the victim clearly moving forward while the dumbass is on the ground?
And since the victim finally starts moving away does the grounded fool have a right to shoot?
Seems like no one is innocent in this situation.

[Gadfly]

It may be legal under FL law. But “just cause you could, doesn’t mean you should”.

Telling someone to not park in a handicapped spot is kind of busy body, but not illegal. Shoving is not good. I am good with him drawing. Then, Shover begins to back off... why not let him back off? Disengage, write down the plates as they leave. Make police report, and realize you are not the parking lot police.

Lots of folks think a 4 hour LTC/CHL class is the same as a 32 week police academy. It ain’t.



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