Got it...thanksOriginally Posted by Grey
Got it...thanks
Watch the video I posted on the first page. He explains why.
Edit - Here is the video:
The method can be used to load, empty, or press check. Using the slide lock/release/stop/catch (whatever you want to call it) is faster for reloads.
Last edited by DAVE_M; 07-24-2018 at 10:16 AM.
Good stuff guys, much appreciated.
Along with the serrations, the 5-inch PPQ has a step-down in the cross section of the slide for the additional barrel length that you can see in the photo below, providing a ledge to push against. It really makes for a secure grip (from both above and below) and is the primary reason I've been experimenting with this.
For the rear grip, I pinch the slide between my four fingers and palm. Not as much room in back of the ejection port and I need to be careful to not cover it. Also, having my hand accidently slip-'n-slide over the ledge-style 10-8 rear sight is no fun;
Using the front of the slide, I could also work on going from the bottom as shown in the video, which seems to be a more efficient use of motion and I would think quicker. If I can learn to execute it that way with confidence I'd be happy.
Wow, that works great! Excellent purchase on the slide and no body parts near the muzzle. Also easy to roll and totally invert the gun to have the port facing straight down for clearing malfunctions.
Thanks for posting the link!
As a fellow who has a REALLY COOL star shaped scar on my left palm and associated loss of function in my left pinky from letting my support hand get in front of the muzzle of a malfunctioning pistol, I'm NOT a fan of ANY technique that gets anything near the muzzle that you don't want to destroy.
Mr. Proctor's technique looks great - but I would need 10s of thousands of dry fire repetitions before I'd be comfortable doing that on a live gun - too much like a fine motor skill function for my tastes.
Having said that, in 30+ years of shooting in .mil, LE, and competition, I've never had a malfunction that I couldn't clear with TRB using the rear slide serrations...
Discomfort usually causes accidents. It's no more a fine motor skill than pressing the magazine release, slide release, or even using the slingshot method with rear serrations. Firearms are inherently dangerous no matter how you manipulate them. Understanding the dangers and manipulating them in safer ways is important. Do not let a mental discomfort limit you from safe handling.
That being said, I could care less how you do it, so long as you don't put yourself or others in harms way.
Ouch. That would end my enthusiasm for the technique too.
My goals for slide manipulation are as follows;
- As secure a grip on the slide as possible
- Ejection port fully unobstructed without needing precise hand placement
- Point ejection port downward for efficient malfunction clearing
- And of course to be as safe as possible
The Proctor method covers the first three quite nicely, but I agree would need plenty of practice to 100% ensure the support hand stays out of harm's way. There is NO way I would attempt this with the PPS (not much slide to grab front or rear), but the 5-inch PPQ presents a pretty big target for the support hand to capture.
Last edited by NH Shooter; 07-24-2018 at 11:25 AM.
Ummm - not sure exactly what your point is. I'm extremely comfortable and confident in firearms handling and use, multiple instructor certs and lead FI for my field office. Mental discomfort in this case is based on experience (painful experience). Mashing the slide release or magazine release with my thumb does not require that my hand be positioned PRECISELY correctly relative to the slide (and, more importantly, the muzzle). Sling-shotting is a GROSS muscle movement - eg - a "monkey fist" behavior - what Mr. Proctor so spectacularly demonstrated is not.
WRT you caring about how I "do it" - methinks thou dost protest too much...
Have a great day!
I used to carry a Sig 229 and a G19. I defaulted to something similar to the Procter technique the first time I tried to press check with a WML. It seems to me that what he is doing is a natural extention of what I was doing for press checks. Neither of these guns had serrations on the forward portion of the slide, and reaching under the dustcover did not give me a lot of purchase. I will have to play a bit with the technique as I run gloves as often as not while running a gun. My Immediate Action has always been closer to "tap, roll, rack" than "tap,rack,bang.", using the rear of the slide, heel of the hand inboard, fingers outboard. Running a Sig, Glock, M&P, and 1911 they all have the extractors at 3 o'clock to the chamber, and I have had students not roll the gun far enough during Tap-Rack-Bang and not work the slide hard enough that the offending round or case does not clear the port. I don't like rolling inboard for malfunction reduction.
The way it has been explained to me, and the way I teach it is that since the extractor pins the cartridge/case to the breechface untill the ejector could push the rim with enough force to tip the cartridge/case out, which will then spin around the claw on its way out of the feedway. On my AR and all my pistol immediate action drills I am recruiting gravity as much as I can, as well as providing as clear a path as possible out of the gun, so I roll the gun 90 degrees outboard (or a few degrees more) so the widest part of the ejection port (just above the extractor, maybe 1:30-2:00) is wide open and facing down. Then I use man hands to run the slide. Some claim to employ centrifigal force to whip the casing out of there, but I think given all involved nuttin is gettin whipped out of nowhere.
That said, two places I want to avoid with my fleshy bits are the muzzle and the ejection port. I have not been on the range for an open chamber detonation, (although I have heard of them) I have seen misfires, hangfires, and unsupported chamber issues (think a .40 on a .45 breech face. The round fired as intended, but...). I can imagine trying to run the gun hard (man hands) bare hands, work gloves, and ppe gloves, and I can see the issue of having hot, nasty stuff coming out of the chamber, but I think a bigger issue in in the event the support hand slips, or grabs low,is covering part of the port, potenially keeping in what you are trying to get out, and increasing the complexity of the stoppage. Using the rear serrations gets me behind both danger areas without me having to grab between them. Yeah, sight selection can make it rough on the paws. Up until now none of my work guns had high profile or ledge type sights, and one handed stuff worked just fine using the front sight, front corner of the slide, or ejection port. Heck, Pat Rogers showed that enough friction on the top of the slide will allow you to run on your pants leg, which we then practiced a few times. Really like the RMR for one handed manipulations.
I will say what I always say in these threads, and if what you are doing is working for you, then good, keep it up. Proctor's technique is interesting, and how I press check anyway, so maybe I will try it. If you are going totally nondiagnostic (something I have gone back and forth with over the years, and another discussion) it may have a place, but for now, how I shoot, Immediate Action is 'Tap-Roll-Rack". While the front of the ejection port stuff is great for press checks, and looks llike it might work for "Clear and Make Safe." , and I might even like it for "Make Ready". BUT, consistently on timers a bobbled malfuntion clearance is way slower than a bobbled reload, so it is probably pretty important to fix it right the first time, before your window to return fire closes. As one of my mentors used to say, "you have the rest of your life to solve this problem...."
pat
Last edited by UNM1136; 07-24-2018 at 01:13 PM.
Any time you do anything with a firearm, you are using gross and fine motor skills. By definition, gripping the slide with your hand is a fine motor skill, regardless of what you personally feel it is. My point is that you made a comment based on your own personal discomfort level. I'm sorry you had an accident in the past, but unless you were performing a fine motor skill such as using Proctor's method, there isn't much to say about that.
My comment about it being no more of a fine motor skill than pressing the magazine release, using the slide stop, or gripping the slide apparently went over your head.
- methinks thou should comprehend the post mo betta next time.
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