Young Female Officer at LGS

[BehindBlueI's]

and think the M&P 15 is duty quality.

All of our rifles, personal or issued, have to go through an armorer's inspection. They've caught some issues with M&P Sports out of the box and they were usually simple issues to resolve. Afterward they've been just fine for our uses.

I've got a M&P (non-sport) and it shoots as well as my Colt in my hands.

So, to add to this:

1) Offering unsolicited advise, absent an immediate safety issue, is not something I'd recommend. Particularly in this context.
2) Patrol rifles honestly don't have that hard of a life, round-count wise. If it'll survive in the temperature swings and bouncing around in a trunk or rack, it'll probably do just fine. Given the distances domestic LE can realistically identify a threat and engage with non-magnified optics, the difference between a 1 MOA and 3 MOA rifle is negligible.
3) If she gets in to it, she's at least got a training rifle to beat on once she gets a "nice" one.

[Nocturnalis Discipulo]

All of our rifles, personal or issued, have to go through an armorer's inspection. They've caught some issues with M&P Sports out of the box and they were usually simple issues to resolve. Afterward they've been just fine for our uses.

I've got a M&P (non-sport) and it shoots as well as my Colt in my hands.

So, to add to this:

1) Offering unsolicited advise, absent an immediate safety issue, is not something I'd recommend. Particularly in this context.
2) Patrol rifles honestly don't have that hard of a life, round-count wise. If it'll survive in the temperature swings and bouncing around in a trunk or rack, it'll probably do just fine. Given the distances domestic LE can realistically identify a threat and engage with non-magnified optics, the difference between a 1 MOA and 3 MOA rifle is negligible.
3) If she gets in to it, she's at least got a training rifle to beat on once she gets a "nice" one.

I think these are excellent points. Does anyone know if Colt or BCM offer Blue Label type programs to help get their rifles in the hands of police officers? I would feel less hesitation offering unsolicited advice when I can spend less money on a nicer product.

[DAVE_M]

I think these are excellent points. Does anyone know if Colt or BCM offer Blue Label type programs to help get their rifles in the hands of police officers? I would feel less hesitation offering unsolicited advice when I can spend less money on a nicer product.

I'm unsure if they do directly, but I know of a few shops that offer LE/Mil pricing for DD.

[Spartan1980]

The clerk and I were talking when she walked up and started the conversation. I could not intervene without intruding. My doing so would have offended the clerk and the owner. The girl did not know me. Otherwise, I would have. Not directly related to your question is this: as I have aged and become an old guy with white hair and unsteady gait, l've noticed that young people like this young lady are less likely to heed any advice that I might give. So in many cases, I hesitate to say much. The owner asks my advice about fudd guns and reloading and gunsmithing. The young guys working there frequently make incorrect statements about AR's. I don't correct them.

Understood. Like others the fact that she bought a STAG doesn't give me a lot of heartburn, but at that price I'd rather have seen her in a Ruger or M&P15 at least. I'm in the "at least she bought one" boat.

[HCM]

Understood. Like others the fact that she bought a STAG doesn't give me a lot of heartburn, but at that price I'd rather have seen her in a Ruger or M&P15 at least. I'm in the "at least she bought one" boat.

Which Ruger ? The Ruger piston AR is decent but at nearly 2x the cost of the stag plus the weight and recoil penalties associated with all piston ARs.

The Ruger 556 is a budget AR with inconsistent QC - great if you get a good one but they are a crapshoot. Not an acceptable duty grade gun.

The standard M&P 15 is a good gun and normally duty grade. The only real negative is you can buy a Colt for the same price if you shop around.

The M&P sport / sport 2 is the best of the budget rifles out there in the $500 range, still not optimal compared to a 6920 but the minimum I would be ok with for duty with a good armored inspection.

[Spartan1980]

Which Ruger ? The Ruger piston AR is decent but at nearly 2x the cost of the stag plus the weight and recoil penalties associated with all piston ARs.

The Ruger 556 is a budget AR with inconsistent QC - great if you get a good one but they are a crapshoot. Not an acceptable duty grade gun.

The standard M&P 15 is a good gun and normally duty grade. The only real negative is you can buy a Colt for the same price if you shop around.

The M&P sport / sport 2 is the best of the budget rifles out there in the $500 range, still not optimal compared to a 6920 but the minimum I would be ok with for duty with a good armored inspection.

Ditto, same here. I was referring to the base Ruger, but I had no idea their piston gun had gone up that much as I haven't really looked at them since they came out. I'm not a huge fan of piston ARs anyway as I think they are totally unnecessary and have more failure points. I know the Ruger isn't a Larue, BCM, or DD, but it would be fine if it were proven to be reliable, the specs are good enough for me if I were a new LEO on a budget. I'd put an Aimpoint PRO on it and carry it. Besides, I know Ruger would make it right if it had issues, especially with some departmental letterhead involved.

[HCM]

[/U][/B]

Ditto, same here. I was referring to the base Ruger, but I had no idea their piston gun had gone up that much as I haven't really looked at them since they came out. I'm not a huge fan of piston ARs anyway as I think they are totally unnecessary and have more failure points. I know the Ruger isn't a Larue, BCM, or DD, but it would be fine if it were proven to be reliable, the specs are good enough for me if I were a new LEO on a budget. I'd put an Aimpoint PRO on it and carry it. Besides, I know Ruger would make it right if it had issues, especially with some departmental letterhead involved.

Armorers inspections are important but mostly cover things like proper assembly, staking and obvious defects. However, all parts are not created equal in terms of materials.

Ruger’s piston gun is excellent. The AR 556 is the opposite. They have enough problems that if I were an Armorer /rangemaster for a small Department I would not want to be bothered dealing with them.

On a hard budget, S&W Sport 2.

There are a whole slew of rifles that are decent but in the same price range as a Colt 6920 so why not get a 6920 or variation there of ? These range from the standard S&W M&P, Stag Arms and the SIG M400 to the excellent LMT. LMT is a great rifle maybe better than current Colts but priced above a Colt it just doesn’t make sense.

Another issue is what I call the “bait and switch” rifles. Companies like Rock River and Bushmaster which made rifles to TDP spec with full QC checks for FED GOV/DOJ and TX DPS contracts respectively but make commercial guns to a lower standard with batch test only QC. These companies could make good rifles but choose not to in order to increase profit. Remington /DPMS / and current Bushmaster fall into this category as well. I’ve seen some GOV contract select fire R4s and it’s hard to reconcile the high quality with the junk they push on the commercial side.

LaRue and DD are Boutique brands. So is Hodge and Noveske though I’m a fan of both but you are paying for the name.

Duty grade guns with good value - Colt, BCM, SIONICS, SOLGW, certain S&W M&P (non sport) certain FN.

FN is funny as they have a gun at 6920 price with lower QC and sub TDP spec and they have a couple models which are high QC and better than TDP Spec.

The problem with the Ruger 556 is a rifle for duty use needs to be right when you need it, Ruger making it right for your heirs after the fact is unacceptable.

BBI is right though regarding most patrol rifles not leading hard lives. They should lead hard lives in training to higher levels of skill, but the reality is most don’t.

[Spartan1980]

Armorers inspections are important but mostly cover things like proper assembly, staking and obvious defects. However, all parts are not created equal in terms of materials.

Ruger’s piston gun is excellent. The AR 556 is the opposite. They have enough problems that if I were an Armorer /rangemaster for a small Department I would not want to be bothered dealing with them.

On a hard budget, S&W Sport 2.

There are a whole slew of rifles that are decent but in the same price range as a Colt 6920 so why not get a 6920 or variation there of ? These range from the standard S&W M&P, Stag Arms and the SIG M400 to the excellent LMT. LMT is a great rifle maybe better than current Colts but priced above a Colt it just doesn’t make sense.

Another issue is what I call the “bait and switch” rifles. Companies like Rock River and Bushmaster which made rifles to TDP spec with full QC checks for FED GOV/DOJ and TX DPS contracts respectively but make commercial guns to a lower standard with batch test only QC. These companies could make good rifles but choose not to in order to increase profit. Remington /DPMS / and current Bushmaster fall into this category as well. I’ve seen some GOV contract select fire R4s and it’s hard to reconcile the high quality with the junk they push on the commercial side.

LaRue and DD are Boutique brands. So is Hodge and Noveske though I’m a fan of both but you are paying for the name.

Duty grade guns with good value - Colt, BCM, SIONICS, SOLGW, certain S&W M&P (non sport) certain FN.

FN is funny as they have a gun at 6920 price with lower QC and sub TDP spec and they have a couple models which are high QC and better than TDP Spec.

The problem with the Ruger 556 is a rifle for duty use needs to be right when you need it, Ruger making it right for your heirs after the fact is unacceptable.

BBI is right though regarding most patrol rifles not leading hard lives. They should lead hard lives in training to higher levels of skill, but the reality is most don’t.

When I said "proven to be reliable" I was thinking something along the lines of a 2000 round challenge like is popular on this site for pistols BEFORE carry.

So is it that Ruger just doesn't do QC anymore? This is pretty disappointing because they use a cold hammer forged 4140 barrel, 9310 bolt, etc. Not top tier but certainly serviceable.

[HCM]

When I said "proven to be reliable" I was thinking something along the lines of a 2000 round challenge like is popular on this site for pistols BEFORE carry.

So is it that Ruger just doesn't do QC anymore? This is pretty disappointing because they use a cold hammer forged 4140 barrel, 9310 bolt, etc. Not top tier but certainly serviceable.

Yeah, a 2000 round challenge isn’t likely for your average LEO unless they are in a special unit or shoot as a hobby.

Ruger’s QC in general has been spotty for a while now. Not just on the 556, but revolvers and a few other guns.

[DAVE_M]

When I said "proven to be reliable" I was thinking something along the lines of a 2000 round challenge like is popular on this site for pistols BEFORE carry.

So is it that Ruger just doesn't do QC anymore? This is pretty disappointing because they use a cold hammer forged 4140 barrel, 9310 bolt, etc. Not top tier but certainly serviceable.

The Ruger 556 is borderline hobby grade. It's a step above the common rifles from PSA and Anderson. I would never trust one in any official capacity. If you think it's quality just because they use XYZ steel in their parts, I'd have to ask if you would trust an Anderson AR-15 with the same alloys to go to war. I wouldn't.

Better QA/QC is costly. There is a reason the Ruger comes in at a third the cost of most "duty grade" AR rifles.