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Thread: Low Light Malfunction Clearing

  1. #21
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    I like the idea of letting the trigger tell you what to do.

    Click no bang = immediate action.

    Dead trigger = remedial action.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  2. #22
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham View Post
    Holy cow, do you have grizzly bear DNA?
    My hands are smaller than Trump's with short, fat fingers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhat View Post
    I assume you guys have tried the various methods of conducting weapon manipulations while still holding onto the light?
    Even with a larger light the lanyard works well: just let it go and hang by the finger, do what needs to be done;

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave J View Post
    I’m pretty sure you posted it in the past, but where did you get the breakaway connectors?
    Just Google "paracord barrel connector" and you will find many links.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter Jay Cunningham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I like the idea of letting the trigger tell you what to do.

    Click no bang = immediate action.

    Dead trigger = remedial action.
    That’s a good general guideline, but is a lot to process for most. Plus, smack-roll-rack can fix dead trigger results.

  4. #24
    This is a good discussion here. IMHO, simple is better. A slap/tap, roll, rack and assess will fix several issues. Perhaps no big surprise, but in observing students and action pistol competitors, unless they’ve trained and practiced, some will forget the tap. I recall watching a surveillance video of an attempted bank robbery a year or so ago: the retired officer who was working security in uniform, responded to a robber who walked in and fired a shot into the ceiling. The officer fired several shots, and seemed to have an induced stoppage(he was shooting one handed around a counter). He pulled the slide back, which luckily cleared it. He prevailed, luckily.
    I like GJMs approach: tap, rack, backup if needed(and there), move to disengage if necessary. Above all, practice.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1Rangemaster View Post
    This is a good discussion here. IMHO, simple is better. A slap/tap, roll, rack and assess will fix several issues. Perhaps no big surprise, but in observing students and action pistol competitors, unless they’ve trained and practiced, some will forget the tap. I recall watching a surveillance video of an attempted bank robbery a year or so ago: the retired officer who was working security in uniform, responded to a robber who walked in and fired a shot into the ceiling. The officer fired several shots, and seemed to have an induced stoppage(he was shooting one handed around a counter). He pulled the slide back, which luckily cleared it. He prevailed, luckily.
    I like GJMs approach: tap, rack, backup if needed(and there), move to disengage if necessary. Above all, practice.
    I eliminated the tap about a year and a half ago. It came down to the chance of the magazine coming unseated vs the time saved eliminating the tap. The time savings won out because I haven't had a mag come unseated in about ten years, and that was due to a shitty holster. It's never happened while firing. Not saying it can't happen but I think there's a bigger chance of catching a bullet to the noodle during that extra .40 it takes me to smack the mag.

  6. #26
    Supporting Business NH Shooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scjbash View Post
    I eliminated the tap about a year and a half ago. It came down to the chance of the magazine coming unseated vs the time saved eliminating the tap.
    The only time I've experienced a not-fully-seated magazine is when inserting a full mag with a round already in the chamber. This is an issue with 8-round magazines in my PPS, so now I always tap when inserting any mag in any pistol. But like you, I do not experience any magazine unseating issues during a string of fire.

    IMO this is another illustration of the importance of knowing one's gear and what issues might be expected. Another example - when my 5-inch PPQ was new the slide would occasionally fail to fully close, missing by a fraction of an inch. In that case a pull of the trigger resulted in a click-but-no-bang as the striker drove the slide fully closed and leaving a dead trigger in the process. Now that I have some rounds through the PPQ and I've adjusted my grip, I no longer experience that malfunction* but I know the potential for it exists. A TRB (or just a RB) is the default remedial action and absolutely resolves it in all cases, though all that is really needed is to simply retract the slide by about half an inch to reset the striker.

    *a firmer grip and getting some rounds through the pistol solved the issue, but I now also pay closer attention to lubrication. I have also switched to 147 grain ammo which this pistol seems to prefer. Knowing its idiosyncrasies, ammo preferences, etc. have been key to attaining confidence in it.

  7. #27
    Member That Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scjbash View Post
    I eliminated the tap about a year and a half ago. It came down to the chance of the magazine coming unseated vs the time saved eliminating the tap. The time savings won out because I haven't had a mag come unseated in about ten years, and that was due to a shitty holster. It's never happened while firing. Not saying it can't happen but I think there's a bigger chance of catching a bullet to the noodle during that extra .40 it takes me to smack the mag.
    I find that idea very uncomfortable. I've watched a very experienced IPSC shooter shoot a stage where his magazine came unseated multiple shots after a magazine change. The guy skipped the tap - I'm guessing here but I got the impression his magazine has never before came unseated, either - and ended up spending a lot of time racking, aiming, pressing the trigger, getting a click, repeating previous steps, being puzzled what was going on... The combination of a malfunction he hadn't practised clearing, properly, and the stress of shooting against the clock really short-circuited his brain. A proper tap-and-rack would have kept him in the competition with just a few seconds added to his time, instead of the total dumpster fire that stage turned out to be for him. And of course if it had been a two-way range that guy would have died, guaranteed.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by NH Shooter View Post
    The only time I've experienced a not-fully-seated magazine is when inserting a full mag with a round already in the chamber. This is an issue with 8-round magazines in my PPS, so now I always tap when inserting any mag in any pistol. But like you, I do not experience any magazine unseating issues during a string of fire.

    IMO this is another illustration of the importance of knowing one's gear and what issues might be expected. Another example - when my 5-inch PPQ was new the slide would occasionally fail to fully close, missing by a fraction of an inch. In that case a pull of the trigger resulted in a click-but-no-bang as the striker drove the slide fully closed and leaving a dead trigger in the process. Now that I have some rounds through the PPQ and I've adjusted my grip, I no longer experience that malfunction* but I know the potential for it exists. A TRB (or just a RB) is the default remedial action and absolutely resolves it in all cases, though all that is really needed is to simply retract the slide by about half an inch to reset the striker.

    *a firmer grip and getting some rounds through the pistol solved the issue, but I now also pay closer attention to lubrication. I have also switched to 147 grain ammo which this pistol seems to prefer. Knowing its idiosyncrasies, ammo preferences, etc. have been key to attaining confidence in it.
    Have you ever measured what that extra tap on every reload with every pistol costs you in time? I watch a lot of different shooters on classifiers, and the tap guys are the ones with a slow reload.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  9. #29
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scjbash View Post
    I eliminated the tap about a year and a half ago. It came down to the chance of the magazine coming unseated vs the time saved eliminating the tap. The time savings won out because I haven't had a mag come unseated in about ten years, and that was due to a shitty holster. It's never happened while firing. Not saying it can't happen but I think there's a bigger chance of catching a bullet to the noodle during that extra .40 it takes me to smack the mag.
    Quote Originally Posted by That Guy View Post
    I find that idea very uncomfortable. I've watched a very experienced IPSC shooter shoot a stage where his magazine came unseated multiple shots after a magazine change. The guy skipped the tap - I'm guessing here but I got the impression his magazine has never before came unseated, either - and ended up spending a lot of time racking, aiming, pressing the trigger, getting a click, repeating previous steps, being puzzled what was going on... The combination of a malfunction he hadn't practised clearing, properly, and the stress of shooting against the clock really short-circuited his brain. A proper tap-and-rack would have kept him in the competition with just a few seconds added to his time, instead of the total dumpster fire that stage turned out to be for him. And of course if it had been a two-way range that guy would have died, guaranteed.
    The Tap is a remedy that can fix a problem that the weapon system may or may not have at the moment. By discounting or eliminating the Tap you could be sealing your fate. It may have been an unseated magazine, empty chamber, out of battery or a dud round. Logic dictates you execute a remediation that solves all those problems. Hence the Tap then rack. Investigation into the actual cause is not time well spent. Assumption that the magazine is seated could be your last guess ever. The minimal amount of time it takes to perform the Tap is well spent.

  10. #30
    Site Supporter JohnO's Avatar
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    Speaking of malfunction clearances. I may have posted some of this somewhere else her I'm not certain. I certainly have spoken to friends about it many times.

    My son is a police cadet. Back in May he competed on the range at Stations Day http://www.nerleea.org/event-2820957.

    Range directions were that any cadet who experienced a malfunction was to stop and raise their hand. The malfunction would then be handled by their individual RSO shadow. During a string of fire my son's 226 developed a double feed malfunction. He followed the rules and handed the weapon to his RSO. My son is well versed in how to clear the malfunction and can do it in less that 5 seconds. He stood there in amazement and watched the RSO struggle attempting to clear the malfunction. The RSO called for assistance from another police officer on the range and the two proceeded to have a difficult time clearing the weapon. During a debrief at my son's next cadet meeting the following week he learned that his RSO at the competition was a firearms instructor for our hometown police department.

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