Turkish Hi-power Pistols--C&S Says They're Good

[JonInWA]

Something went over my head. Why not buy a used Mk111 and customize it? I see them around here.

Because good as a FN-produced High Power is, unless you know the provenance/round count of the one you're buying used, they can be a bit of a crap shoot, as the forecasted barrel lifespan has been estimated to be in the vicinity of 12,000 - 15,000 rounds, and frames around 35,000, give or take.

The High Power is a great pistol, albeit with some caveats. From a durability standpoint, the fact that they have less mass than a 1911 has led to them inevitably having a more limited lifespan, all things being equal.

While these estimates may be based on forged-frame High Powers (the 1994+ cast frames are thorough-hardened and much tougher), I simply don't know of empirically derived results to substantiate that assumption (that the post 1994 cast-frames are more durable than 35,00 rounds; the barrel lifespan of 12,000 - 15,000 I assume remains the same {except, again, the 3-lugged .40 barrels might be more durable, but {again} there's a lack of empirically-derived data).

Hence there might be a willingness to go with a new clone as opposed to a used FN.

It looks like they're still a bit of a work in progress, though.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

Something went over my head. Why not buy a used Mk111 and customize it? I see them around here.

Buying an Israeli surplus gun is certainly an option although there's no stainless version there. But hard chrome or NP3 comes to mind for a durable corrosion finish.

[Tokarev]

I need to forward my cracked frame pics to C&S. Not to create bad blood but rather to give them a heads up.

Also, for the record, I want these guns to succeed and am really hoping the TISAS factory can get things worked out with QC and metallurgy. The market needs a source for new (and affordable) Hi Powers.

[JonInWA]

I need to forward my cracked frame pics to C&S. Not to create bad blood but rather to give them a heads up.

Also, for the record, I want these guns to succeed and am really hoping the TISAS factory can get things worked out with QC and metallurgy. The market needs a source for new (and affordable) Hi Powers.

Much agreed.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

Here's the latest from LKCI:


I'm sorry that this happened to you. These cracks appeared on only a few guns and the manufacturer couldn't narrow down the problem to certain batch of serial numbers. Obviously it was a bad batch of metallurgy.

We are expecting a shipment on or about the first week of April and we can arrange the replacement as soon as we receive them. Again, sorry for your inconvenience.





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[Alpha Sierra]

These cracks appeared on only a few guns and the manufacturer couldn't narrow down the problem to certain batch of serial numbers. Obviously it was a bad batch of metallurgy.

This is a HUGE red flag

Piss poor (or no) lot control and no acknowledgement that un-radiused corners will forment the propagation of cracks even if the steel is heat treated appropriately for its intended function.

If the manufacturer can't narrow the problem to a certain batch of serial numbers, who (and how) is making the determination that it was a "bad batch of metallurgy"?

And WTH is a "bad batch of metallurgy"? Completely wrong type (low vs high carbon steel) of steel? Wrong alloy (4340 instead of 4140 for ex)? Forgot to heat treat? Missed the tempering step? Tempered but not enough?

In my line of work a supplier like that would get some audits and probably be placed on source inspection until they can prove that they know what they're doing.

[Tokarev]

This is a HUGE red flag

Piss poor (or no) lot control and no acknowledgement that un-radiused corners will forment the propagation of cracks even if the steel is heat treated appropriately for its intended function.

If the manufacturer can't narrow the problem to a certain batch of serial numbers, who (and how) is making the determination that it was a "bad batch of metallurgy"?

And WTH is a "bad batch of metallurgy"? Completely wrong type (low vs high carbon steel) of steel? Wrong alloy (4340 instead of 4140 for ex)? Forgot to heat treat? Missed the tempering step? Tempered but not enough?

In my line of work a supplier like that would get some audits and probably be placed on source inspection until they can prove that they know what they're doing.

No comments on what went wrong with the materials used but I'm not seeing any deformation to the frame rails or any of the wear surfaces. I assume that means the frame is too hard?

Looking at my FEG and a factory FN Hi Power; neither pistol has radiused edges around the trigger slot.

[Alpha Sierra]

No comments on what went wrong with the materials used but I'm not seeing any deformation to the frame rails or any of the wear surfaces. I assume that means the frame is too hard?

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet. It would take a professional metallurgist to actually figure out why it happened. The frame would be destroyed in the process but it's junk anyway.

Looking at my FEG and a factory FN Hi Power; neither pistol has radiused edges around the trigger slot.

I'm sure you're correct (I don't have one) but it's still poor design practice.

[feudist]

Any updates to this?

[Tokarev]

Any updates to this?

Nothing yet.

I haven't heard from LKCI yet about the availability of a replacement. In the meantime, I shipped the frame to Bill Laughridge so he could take a look at it.

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