FN 509 Tactical

[navyman8903]

Thus the backup iron sights...?

Not sure why you are so poo poo on the dots, its definitely an improvement over irons from a pure sight standpoint and you have irons as backup. The only downside now is the cost of having the MRDS break on you in time/money to get it fixed (if that occurs). There are also plenty of SMEs that have thousands of rounds through multiple dots and haven't killed them. The RMR Gen 2 is pretty much the gold standard right now for a MRDS, the Aimpoint one will be exciting to see how it works out. The real issue with MRDS is that a lot of companies are making them and they aren't built to stand up to the abuse.

That's a subjective standpoint.

[Grey]

That's a subjective standpoint.

Okay... and your standpoint isn't?

[BigT]

Its like traveling back in time to when guys started running red dots on their rifles.

[navyman8903]

Its like traveling back in time to when guys started running red dots on their rifles.

Not quite. These are mirco red dots. Which means smaller package, smaller battery, and much less robust.

[HCM]

Future for what? Gaming? Home defense? Range toy? Sure. A lot of people are trying to push them into the military, concealed carry, and police arenas with limited success. They're not the god mode mod people think they are. There's plenty of dudes with lots of rounds down range through multiple dots because their guns kill it, or they run into the stoppages/malfunctions they cause.

Let alone the pounding they'll be taking from basic police and military duty use. Getting in and out of vehicles, rolling around on them and just basic shock. Micro dots were never a serious idea on a rifle, and a pistol will prove the same concept over time. Irons don't get foggy, crack, lose power, or catch on things like that window does. They also don't cause stoppages by pinching an expended round in-between the window and the slide.


Is it popular now? Kinda sure. The future? Definitely not yet. Still in the testing phase at best.

What for ? Duty guns.

The M17/M18 are RDS capable and CBP, the largest LE Agency in North America has included RDS capability. Several major LE Agencies have approved RDS Guns, most recently the Houston PD.

There are more / better MRDS in the pipeline. They will improve and eventually become the standard the same way Tasco pro points and Aimpoint 5000s paved the way and eventually became the third generation M68 CCO of today. At this point it is simply a matter of engineering.

When the military or another large GOV organization puts out a big enough requirement, and they will, you will see the next generation of MRDS.

Re: micro dots on rifles, the Aimpoint micro T2 is the standard RDS for The Army’s Ranger Regiment among others so not sure what you are talking about.

Everything you just said about pistol RDS is what people said about RDS on carbines in the 1990s and we know how that turned out.

[navyman8903]

Okay... and your standpoint isn't?

It is, but I also didn't say "The only problem is...." when there's multiple documented issues easily searchable on youtube or google. Gun gallery near where I'm stationed has a FNP 45T that eats RMR's, it's now on it's 3rd or 4th Trijicon RMR. The "Gold Standard." You can feel free to call them right now and ask.

[navyman8903]

What for ? Duty guns.

The M17/M18 are RDS capable and CBP, the largest LE Agency in North America has included RDS capability. Several major LE Agencies have approved RDS Guns, most recently the Houston PD.

There are more / better MRDS in the pipeline. They will improve and eventually become the standard the same way Tasco pro points and Aimpoint 5000s paved the way and eventually became the third generation M68 CCO of today. At this point it is simply a matter of engineering.

When the military or another large GOV organization puts out a big enough requirement, and they will, you will see the next generation of MRDS.

Re: micro dots on rifles, the Aimpoint micro T2 is the standard RDS for The Army’s Ranger Regiment among others so not sure what you are talking about.

Everything you just said about pistol RDS is what people said about RDS on carbines in the 1990s and we know how that turned out.

How many are in the field, how many officers are carrying them? Or is it in the testing phase?

[Grey]

It is, but I also didn't say "The only problem is...." when there's multiple documented issues easily searchable on youtube or google. Gun gallery near where I'm stationed has a FNP 45T that eats RMR's, it's now on it's 3rd or 4th Trijicon RMR. The "Gold Standard." You can feel free to call them right now and ask.

Multiple issues for what dot? We all know delta points are gamer dots. We know there are a bunch of dots that arent capable. We know there were battery contact issues for gen 1 RMRs.

We just had a thread on direct milling vs adapter plates for optic mounting. I wouldnt say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability, first its an adapter plate, second its a case of 1.

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[HCM]

It is, but I also didn't say "The only problem is...." when there's multiple documented issues easily searchable on youtube or google. Gun gallery near where I'm stationed has a FNP 45T that eats RMR's, it's now on it's 3rd or 4th Trijicon RMR. The "Gold Standard." You can feel free to call them right now and ask.

45T has lots of issues and is old mount technology. The optic is only half the equation. Mounting MRDS on pistols is an engineering challenge. The reliability of MRDS on pistols has been far better in tight fitting custom milled slides like those done by ATEI than in first generation modular optics mounts such as the MOS and CORE systems.

FN thinks they have a better way to do a modular optics mount in the 509 Tactical which addresses these issues. Time will tell but if it works as advertised we have just seen modular optics mounting on pistols go from Gen 1 to Gen 2.

[navyman8903]

Multiple issues for what dot? We all know delta points are gamer dots. We know there are a bunch of dots that arent capable. We know there were battery contact issues for gen 1 RMRs.

We just had a thread on direct milling vs adapter plates for optic mounting. I wouldnt say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability, first its an adapter plate, second its a case of 1.

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If it's a case of one, how are you saying "I wouldn't say the FNP 45T is a great case for red dot durability." ? Also what happens when the government or a PD authorizes a particular brand of dot over the "Gold standard" also if the Trijicon RMR is the gold standard how is the FNP killing it so consistently? You can try to blame the shop but gun gallery has a solid reputation and does solid work. So what's next?