Glad we didn’t lose a good crew for that guy on the mountain.
Glad we didn’t lose a good crew for that guy on the mountain.
#RESIST
If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going!
Walked by a MH47 last week and forgot how big these things are.
This always looked like fun:
https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/wa...l-o-1683829233
Sorry, it looks like my sarcasm switch was stuck on low....Originally Posted by Stephanie B
pat
Who foots the bill in rescue operations like this? The cost is high, the risk inmense for the crew, and all for a few guys who wanted to take high risks...
I could not agree more.
The guy chooses to opt out at the summit, then does a "cry for help" 9-11 call, putting every responder/rescuer at risk.
Selfish prick.
That said, and back in the spirit of the thread, great pilots/great flying.
Having sat a fair number of hours as air QRF I was impressed by where some of the contractor pilots would put birds in built up areas and how low they would fly. We checked a lot of "suspicious packages" from the air, in advance of our ground elements, and the pilots regularly showed their abilty. I know I had a lot of confidence in them.
Retired 47 guy here still flying as a gov't contractor in support of moderization programs. Wasnt going to chime in as I am a listen-not-talk kinda person. Feel obligated to though as the conversation turned to crew reponsibilities.
In flight school I was determined to get into Cobras (yes, I am old) but through fate and fortune not of my own making, wound up in Chinooks. The thing that I have most enjoyed from the first day is the dynamic of the crew served weapon. The minimum required crew to break ground is three. Two up front, and one in back. That number goes up rapidly as mission profiles get more complicated. Each member of the crew has an itegral and pivotal part to play. Being able to effectively coordinate and time precise communication is a mandatory requirement for everyone on board. Each member is literally trusting every other member with his/her life. When the Army finally figured out that there needed to be an organized method of precise, succinct communication on its aircraft, the training program they implemented was based off of Chinook SOP's.
Operations aft of the cockpit are (in coordination with the pilot-in-command) orchestrated and implemented by the flight engineer who normally is assigned to the aircraft and is the responsible party for its care, maitenance, and safe in-flight operation. Assigned to him are one or more crew chiefs who are (in a sort) like serfs working for a knight in quest of their own knighthood. It's damned hard work and the phrase tough love just doesn't do it justice.
Often times in deployment rotations, crews will be assigned to stay together for extended periods of time and it's not unlike a familial relationship. People really figure each other out and the synergy that can develop is a truly wonderful thing.
That synergy truly shows its worth when the environment and/or mission tasks become demanding and alot of stuff has to be done right, and right now. The pictures in this thread are of whats called a pinnacle landing and could never be done without the guidance and feedback of multiple sets of eyes in the rear of the aircraft. As the pilot, you are approx 60 feet in front of the aft landing gear and manipulating the controls in response to calls such as, "back two feet, down one". Then maybe, "hold the nose where it is, and bring the aft gear right two feet". Etc, etc. On a moonless night, under a tight timeline, in shitty weather, and in close proximity to obstacles, one can suddenly find the seat cushion creeping into regions it was never meant to. Yet, a calm voice over the intercom from a person that you trust and know has faith in you, providing the guidance and confirmation you need is as relaxing as a blanket on a cold day. There are stories and names burned indelibly into my memory of men that will never buy a beer in my presence.
So, apologies for the lengthy post but felt obligated to get that out there.
On a side note, this forum rocks. I learn new stuff every day and have found alot of voices whose opinions I value.
I love this place...
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It sounds about as intricate as backing the stern of warship up to a wharf in the Med.
For a time, some ships used CB radios instead of sound-powered phone talkers, because the communications leg was a little bit shorter. But that led to an incident in Roosevelt Roads, so the use of CB radios was outlawed.
But I’m getting far away from the point of the thread.
As to the expense, that Shi, Chinook was probably an Army National Guard helo. I imagine that they’re probably budgeted for rescuing assistance work, and it all counts for training time.
If we have to march off into the next world, let us walk there on the bodies of our enemies.
BBDT:
Re-reading my first post, I see that it didn't convey the reverence and admiration I intended when I say that you all are crazy. I'm incredibly thankful that you all are such a crazy lot, and do crazy crap and make it seem as normal as putting pants on.
In 2011, a friend of mine deployed in Kandahar doing route clearance was hit by an IED, losing his left leg to explosive amputation and he was pinned in the wreck in such a way that they couldn't get a CAT on it for a few precious minutes. He lost a lot of blood. But a Chinook crew on a totally unrelated mission diverted to his hot, uncleared area to casevac him without so much as blinking, and subsequently saved his life.
He's home with his wife in Kentucky now and they have two little girls, 2 and 5 years old. Last I spoke to him, they're expecting a third now around Thanksgiving - he's hoping for a boy.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you for doing what you guys do.
Last edited by JRB; 07-17-2018 at 09:27 AM.
It is a National Guard Chinook - I Believe Oregon? National Guard "costs" gets complicated as the National Guard (I am Retired Ready Reserve now aka waiting to hit 60) walks a fine line between "state mission" paid through state funds, Title 32 status (commanded by the Governor and sourced through NGB), and Title 10 status (commanded by POTUS through DOD). So, payment - "it depends...". I "suspect" that the Chinook and crew are in Title 32 status and actual payment is very murky between state and Federal.
All the ARNG equipment belongs to the DOD loaned through NGB and when the equipment is used for state or local use there is an "hourly charge" that someone will pay. Hopefully, there is a "legally acceptable" reason for NGB/DOD to pay.
Note - that is one of the reasons all the local and state leaders start burning up the phone lines/internet to Congress/Senate/POTUS/FEMA to get disasters declared. Most state budgets cannot stand to pay the hourly rate on a Chinook or Blackhawk, etc. for long.
Sorry for thread drift - National Guard "money" is an art and science to itself. I often longed for the days of just walking patrols or screaming around in a Bradley IFV versus working the "money" side of the issue. Maybe a new quote - "Amateurs study tactics but professionals try to stay out of jail on allocating/committing funds"
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