That incident at the George Webb restaurant

[peterb]

It's interesting that our matches, we have a core of maybe 30 every match repeated and maybe 20 frequent folks. We see 10 to 20 new shooters. I wonder whom we keep coming from them? Some are one time guys. Do they not like it? Intimidated? Some are visitors. We are very supportive and our squad has added a couple of new regulars.

For me it’s the time. My local club doesn’t run matches but has practices where we set up a stage or two and run it a few different ways on the timer. I enjoy that. I’m impressed by the fast guys, and work to improve. But “real” matches involve several hours of driving plus the time at the match, and given my other obligations and choices the match just isn’t that appealing.

In addition, all the work folks have done here posting drills and standards have made it easy to have a realistic sense of my basic skill levels. I can look at my own timer and know I’m slow.

[JodyH]

In addition, all the work folks have done here posting drills and standards have made it easy to have a realistic sense of my basic skill levels. I can look at my own timer and know I’m slow.

Don't underestimate the additional stress that comes with shooting in front of a crowd of strangers (or even worse, friends) while on a timer being held by someone else (who's watching your every move for safety).
That's the one thing nearly every new competitor at our matches comments on when they don't shoot nearly as well as they thought they would.

[UNM1136]

Don't underestimate the additional stress that comes with shooting in front of a crowd of strangers (or even worse, friends) while on a timer being held by someone else (who's watching your every move for safety).
That's the one thing nearly every new competitor at our matches comments on when they don't shoot nearly as well as they thought they would.

Or me, when you are within earshot of the range. Dude, you are the worst ever accuracy/speed talisMAN I can imagine....

pat

[JodyH]

Or me, when you are within earshot of the range. Dude, you are the worst ever accuracy/speed talisMAN I can imagine....

pat

There's no pressure quite like peer pressure.

[UNM1136]

Drunk enough to say "queer pressure?". We spent a bunch of time on the ground together in ECQC my brother....

Rough week at work.

pat

[peterb]

Don't underestimate the additional stress that comes with shooting in front of a crowd of strangers (or even worse, friends) while on a timer being held by someone else (who's watching your every move for safety).
That's the one thing nearly every new competitor at our matches comments on when they don't shoot nearly as well as they thought they would.

Agree. I know that stress makes me worse, and that experiencing “safe” stress in training — or at a match — is a good thing.

[WDR]

note: i'm in 100% agreement with your first line that said...

Take accredited class? Get permit for free. Take same or refresher class at renewal time? Get renewal for free. Or, at least some decent discounting. Sort of like auto insurance does (in some areas) where you take a driver's ed course with on-road training and you get a discount on your premiums.

Idaho has a basic permit, and an "enhanced" permit system. If I recall correctly, the enhanced permit opens up schools to carry (including universities), and a few other places that are off limits to basic permits. I think the enhanced permit requires a shooting test, and more classroom instruction. It is an example of a "teired" permit system that has been mentioned in this thread a couple times. I would jump through more hoops for more freedom to carry in "restricted" places... to some degree anyway.

I was inclined to get an enhanced Idaho permit, because it would have allowed me to carry in Nevada, since at that time Nevada did not honor my UT permit, and I am often up in Idaho anyway, but Nevada now honors UT, so I have been dragging my heels. I dont think an Idaho permit would gey me anything my Utah permit does not, at this time.

[HCountyGuy]

Idaho has a basic permit, and an "enhanced" permit system. If I recall correctly, the enhanced permit opens up schools to carry (including universities), and a few other places that are off limits to basic permits. I think the enhanced permit requires a shooting test, and more classroom instruction. It is an example of a "teired" permit system that has been mentioned in this thread a couple times. I would jump through more hoops for more freedom to carry in "restricted" places... to some degree anyway.

I was inclined to get an enhanced Idaho permit, because it would have allowed me to carry in Nevada, since at that time Nevada did not honor my UT permit, and I am often up in Idaho anyway, but Nevada now honors UT, so I have been dragging my heels. I dont think an Idaho permit would gey me anything my Utah permit does not, at this time.

I can’t say that I’m particularly fond of the idea of tiered permit systems. Do those “enhanced” classes really make the participants that much more qualified to carry in select locations versus carrying safely everywhere else? We’ve seen or read about plenty of incidents with “highly trained” individuals doing stupid things with firearms as to discredit the concept to a degree.

Some folks just use it as an ego boost or checkbox on their resume, while still being the epitome of “full derp”.

[Guerrero]

This happened in my city. I think they got the guy a couple days later.

I stand corrected: they didn't get the attacker yet. Supposedly, he's a "known drug dealer" in that neighborhood.

[WDR]

I can’t say that I’m particularly fond of the idea of tiered permit systems. Do those “enhanced” classes really make the participants that much more qualified to carry in select locations versus carrying safely everywhere else? We’ve seen or read about plenty of incidents with “highly trained” individuals doing stupid things with firearms as to discredit the concept to a degree.

Some folks just use it as an ego boost or checkbox on their resume, while still being the epitome of “full derp”.

My reasoning to get it was strictly to get NV carry (because they wouldn't honor UT permits at the time, and the Idaho enhanced was easier for me to acquire), and also increase the areas where I could legally carry in Idaho, where I travel frequently. I may or may not have unwittingly been carrying on a university campus in Idaho, thinking my UT permit was good to go... and found out about it after the fact.

I totally understand that the additional training may or may not improve a persons understanding of the laws involved, and may or may not improve ones skill at arms. The low bar for firearms skill sometimes set in the LE world is proof that even having "standards" is not always ( and maybe never will be) good enough compared what counts as competence here on PF. That said, some LE agencies have demanding standards. I think it's probably good to let local conditions and populations decide what, if any standards to apply to getting a permit. Right down to no permit or training requirement at all. You can't fix or standardize stupid out of everyone.

I don't think the Idaho enhanced permit class would teach me much about shooting. It may teach me a bit more about Idaho law. I did say I'd jump through more hopes for broader carry rights (to some degree)... I didn't say I believe that the system is any better than what I went through to get my UT permit ( Which allows carry in all public funded schools in the state, BTW). It is however, an option on the table for expanding legal carry for Joe Citizen. On the flip side, making things more complicated, rather than less, is almost never desirable.

We are drifting a bit off the course of this thread here...