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Thread: Stage pre-planning vs Visualization of the fight

  1. #1

    Stage pre-planning vs Visualization of the fight

    This might be a competition will "git you kilt in the stretz" kind of a thread but I am curious what other members here think the difference is between pre-planning a stage and vitalization of a fight.

  2. #2
    Quite simply in one scenario you’re aware of any and all variables. In the other, you really don’t know what can happen.

    In most cases people visualizing a fight are typically seeing themselves as some action-movie badass who’s going to mop the floor with their adversary. It seldom works out that way. As Mike Tyson said, “Everyone has a plan, until they get punched in the mouth.”

    That’s not to say one shouldn’t “War Game” certain situations. The difference is in preparing for the generalities of a possibile scenario versus “Okay, punch him in the nose and sweep the leg. Then mount him and get him into an armbar til he submits.” Which isn’t too viable when the other guy pulls a weapon in response to your first step.

    One is preparation, the other is hero fantasy.
    "There is no timer in a gunfight. However there is another guy trying to shoot you, and he's probably in a hurry."

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hank View Post
    This might be a competition will "git you kilt in the stretz" kind of a thread but I am curious what other members here think the difference is between pre-planning a stage and vitalization of a fight.
    You don’t “think” the same during a fight as one would in normal day to day tasks. I’ll leave it to the more eloquent members here to describe that distinction in words.
    The Minority Marksman.
    "When you meet a swordsman, draw your sword: Do not recite poetry to one who is not a poet."
    -a Ch'an Buddhist axiom.

  4. #4
    Site Supporter NEPAKevin's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Poconos, PA
    The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Most people in the warrior mindset camp believe in maintaining situational awareness i.e. paying attention to your environment, noting entrances, exits, choke points, hard cover, potential threats, etc. So it is possible that one might find oneself in a situation where one has time to either avoid a problem or optimize one's ability to deal with it. I can think of several instances where I identified clear and present assholes and used this fore-knowledge to game out the circumstances in order to optimize my performance at going through every day life.
    Last edited by NEPAKevin; 07-12-2018 at 12:44 PM.
    You can only fight the way you practice

  5. #5
    Agree on attention and behavioral assessment as factor one

    A man attempted to approach me outside a grocery store last week

    I saw him trying to chose someone to approach. I changed my path to place a row of cars between he and I - so if he changed directions it would be on purpose.

    He did. With a cart full of groceries and a toddler in the basket, i changed my angle to place my cart/kid to my strong side.

    “Excuse me sir” he said at 30 or so yards away as he continued his rather rapid walking pace in my direction

    Placed one hand out “No. stop. I don’t care what you need. Get away from me. Don’t come any closer.”

    Hit the key fob to open the trunk as he stopped in his tracks.

    Pushed the cart ahead and put the kid in the SUV cargo space while keeping eyes on.

    Closed the cargo gate

    “I’m sorry man -“ he said said rather sheepishly and turned immediately away

    When he had disntaced himself further I opened the trunk, secure the monkey, reclaimed the cart and loaded the groceries as childs mother arrived from the bathroom visit that separated us to begin with.

    She had seen the event and actually flanked the stranger so a row of cars would conceal her approach

    He was probably harmless or at the most a panhandler but his approach was too rapid and deliberate to trust.
    Last edited by Duke; 07-12-2018 at 02:23 PM.

  6. #6
    I don’t know if this is “visualizing a fight”, but I try to run through scenarios thinking about the legal and practical aspects. If I see this situation developing, what are my options? How and where can I safely retreat? When, if at all, may I legally draw/fire?

    I don’t have enough knowledge or experience of the streets to get any more detaled than that.

    Pre-planning a stage, you know a lot more. The situation, targets, and rules are clear. The only real variable is your own performance.

  7. #7
    citizen...not subject blues's Avatar
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    Aug 2016
    blue ridge mtns
    I don't visualize a lot of specifics, though I will occasionally. Rather I try to focus on mindset, attitude and well as situational awareness.
    “Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” - Sun Tzu | "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth." - Mike Tyson

  8. #8
    LE Forum Moderator BehindBlueI's's Avatar
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    Mar 2015

    The "mental simulation" portion directly touches on visualizing the fight, along with what is gained and potential pitfalls of the practice.
    L'otters are not afraid.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    In exile, behind the lines
    I think there might be some conflation of terms and concepts. A stage plan is map, a planned sequence of actions intended to maximize your efficiency, and therefore your score. Visualization is usually describing a mental technique of imagining successful completion of a skilled task. The technique has at various times been considered vital to high level performance of skilled tasks. You can visualize anything from a perfect hit on a fast ball, to perfectly executing your stage plan, to perfectly performing an aikido Irimi-Nage throw on an attacker. Never heard it used in the concept of the actual conflict as it occurs....mostly in training. Though I have heard of folks performing under pressure who "saw themselves" performing on demand.

  10. #10
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    Jul 2017
    Unless you're initiating a pre-planned fight (i.e. LEO serving a high-risk warrant, .mil kicking in doors during a raid, etc.) I think there are few advantages to mentally rehearsing a detailed sequence of events in a conflict. In fact, there are probably real disadvantages if the conflict doesn't play out exactly like the mental rehearsal.

    That said, I think there are enormous benefits to looking around and realizing that you could be in a fight if someone else decides to attack, and contemplating what your reaction might be.

    For example, I was in a pizza place and it looked to me like an armed robbery was about to start. I watched the sketchy dude and pre-planned my reaction if he pulled a gun or announced a robbery. It wasn't a detailed plan, but it was something. To me, that is visualizing the fight.

    I could be wrong, but I think Jared Reston talks about visualizing the fight in the video of his well-known OIS.

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