CZ P09 ignition problems

[cheby]

I REALLY want to like the CZ platform. The concept of a 15+ round 9mm SA capable gun at under 1000 per with less recoil that a G34 is super attractive. I just do not know if I am brave enough to take the plunge.

Just get a stock gun and shoot it. You are not going to have any issues with it. If you want to modify it/use aftermarket parts in it, you really need to learn the gun regardless if it is CZ or Glock

[cheby]

Has anyone successfully replaced a trigger bar spring? The armorers manual lists this as a non-serviceable part but you can buy it.

I broke that spring in my old practice Shadow after probably 70K rds plus daily dryfire. I actually do not know how many rounds because I bought it used from another competition shooter and I shot over 50K through it myself. One leg of that spring was broken but the gun still worked, BTW. It cost $2 and took 1 min to replace it.

[Clusterfrack]

@cheby, the Omega TB spring is different. Fits into a hole on the right side of the frame.

[cheby]

@cheby, the Omega TB spring is different. Fits into a hole on the right side of the frame.

Oh, okay. still $2, I just checked:-)

[Clusterfrack]

All good points, Jon. Here’s my take on this.

In competition (USPSA), CZ is already there. At least in Production division, Tanfo is the only really serious competitor.

I do agree with you that a stock Glock is the answer if you want the most trouble free gun. Add mods or aftermarket parts, and that changes big time.

HK is another very solid option.

Beyond that, no manufacturer can claim to make entirely trouble free guns.

I like the P-07 because it has been well vetted, and is simple enough for me to understand how it works, and make repairs if needed.

To me, CZ's pistols have seemed to perennially be on the cusp of being "almost there." The corporate desire, resources and commitment seems to be there, as well as some strong factory sanctioned and unsanctioned aftermarket support.

I have several friends, very active and competent shooters that have tested the Cee Zed waters and liked them, are committed to them and currently use them (albeit mostly for competition only)-but I also can say the same about Springfield XD pistols.

There has been a bit of a perennial cloud hovering over CZ pistols for years, pertaining primarily to the durability (or the perceived/experienced lack of durability) of some key components, notably slide stops and trigger return springs as I recall-and those concerns centering around the CZ 75 family.

From what I've seen, the PO7 seems to have evolved nicely, and garnered a decent reputation.

The CZ 75 action has been simplified and strengthened with the Omega evolution according to CZ.

In the past, I've personally had 4 CZ pistols (2 CZ 83s, one in .380 and one in 9 x 18 Makarov, and 2 CZ 75Bs). All of my CZ obtained NIB in the mid-to-late 1990s, and out of the 4, 2 were very problematic, both being returned for warranty service and then disposed of; the other 2 were nice, adequate performers, but also subsequently disposed of, as nether really excelled in there respective niches above and beyond what I had from other manufacturers.

I currently have 2 CZ hunting rifles (a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62 x 39 and a CZ 550 FS in .308), which I regard as both exceptional values and exceptionally well made.

While I'm pleased that GJM is spending his money and efforts for himself and sharing with us on our behalf, I'm thinking a couple of things:

1) a la Glock, when you stray from factory components/factory specifications, the chances of interesting events occurring compromising operational effectiveness appear to be significant-to the point where a basically stock gun might well be a perfectly acceptable duty/range/competition gun, a modified one really needs to be treated as only a range toy until carefully and thoroughly vetted;

2) Other than being another option (and options are good...usually...), I'm personally uncertain of any significant specific benefits that are to be derived from a CZ as opposed to, say, a comparable Glock, HK or Beretta (or other similarly comparable viable and previously vetted) platform(s).

But I appreciate GJM taking the time not only in doing what he does, but to objectively and dispassionately relay his empirical experiences to us.

Best, Jon

[GJM]

A CZ, in my experience, is an enthusiast shooter’s pistol, that provides a great experience in exchange for some customization, fussy-ness or extra PM. The P09 combines the best of a Glock (lightweight, fast drawing and transitions) and the trigger of a Shadow. I am shooting it as well as anything I have shot to date.

I am pretty sure that, in certain situations where I get extra finger on the trigger, with slight left deflection, my finger tip is contacting the frame before the trigger bottoms out against the frame. Now that I am aware of it, I don’t believe it will be a problem, although I will need a few weeks of practice to confirm. In the mean time, I can’t replicate this issue with a stock P07/09, or any of my Shadow pistols.

[Clusterfrack]

On my stock P-07, and my CGW Prograde P-07 (kit installed by me, no bending of trigger bar spring, and no polishing): no matter which way I press the trigger, in DA or SA, the hammer falls normally.

When I hold down the decocker by 10-15 degrees, the hammer drops forcefully. I will confirm with live ammo later this week.

I agree with @GJM that CZs can be enthusiast's guns, and can be modified to be comparable to the best guns out there at any price. I am totally happy with my Shadow2s, which are relatively lightly modified (a few springs and pins). But the P-07/09 are great guns unmodified. These guns have a very simple and robust design--like a TDA Glock. You probably wouldn't choose a stock Glock or P-07/09 to compete at the highest level in USPSA. But as a defense/duty gun, I have confidence in both.

[Clusterfrack]

What I meant to say is that when I hold down the decocker by 10-15 degrees, and press the trigger, the hammer drops forcefully.

When I hold down the decocker by 10-15 degrees, the hammer drops forcefully. I will confirm with live ammo later this week.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

When I thought about getting one of these I remember seeing that a couple ones I checked out had noticeably canted hammers. I wonder if that could be related to this.

That's what crossed my mind when I read the OP.

One thing I dislike about the Omega system is the trigger bar is only on one side (right), instead of both sides like traditional CZ75.

This can put leftward torque on the hammer, which, combined with some tolerance stacking, can cause the hammer to cant a bit to the left when firing, adding grit and weight to the DA pull.

On my P07 that I installed full CGW parts on, I had to sand the left side of the frame where the hammer was contacting it to achieve a smooth and easy DA pull.

Instructions on how to so this are on a thread somewhere on czfirearms.us . This is one thing which CGW does NOT do as part of their pro package.

As far as I can tell this is only a problem with plastic framed Omegas (i.e. P07 and P09), and only on some of them, probably due to tolerance stacking.
I never had any reliability issues with mine (amazing reliability actually) but I would definitely consider seeing if your hammer is rubbing the frame, and if so sanding a bit until it is clear.

[spinmove_]

I’ll have to double check my P-07. I thought I was seeing things when I noticed that the hammer was canted off to the right a bit, but now apparently that’s a thing.

I’ll have pics by tonight.


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