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Thread: CZ P09 ignition problems

  1. #11
    Site Supporter JTPHD's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
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    West Virginia
    I've been unable to replicate the issue on my CGW 07 in dry fire.

    I'm thinking it is related to the trigger bar spring, since that is one of CGW's tuning procedures.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JTPHD View Post
    I've been unable to replicate the issue on my CGW 07 in dry fire.

    I'm thinking it is related to the trigger bar spring, since that is one of CGW's tuning procedures.
    Reading the thread you linked, I suspect you are correct.
    Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.

  3. #13
    I'm having some irregular behavior, kind of similar to yours. What caught my ear, and what has me typing this out at nearly 4AM is what you said about this happening when you pull the trigger off to the LEFT. Just for the sake of being thorough, I'll be as detailed is possible to lay everything out so that there are no hidden variables. Apologies in advance for the length.

    Gun in question is a P-07, born early this year. Parts are CGW.

    Non-factory Parts: Extending firing pin, reduced power firing pin spring, 15lb mainspring, reduced power trigger return spring.

    Modifications by me: Stoning/polishing of disconnector sides, stoning/polishing of disconnector "wing" that contacts trigger bar, polishing of trigger side flat where is makes contact with side of frame, stoning/polishing of trigger bar where it makes contact with disconnector, stoning/polishing of top of trigger bar that makes contact with roller, polishing of roller, polishing of sear pin, polishing of hammer pin, polishing of trigger pin, polishing of hammer strut, polishing of upper portion of hammer that contacts the underside of sear as the hammer moves through its range of travel. I did NOT alter the sear/hammer engagement surfaces. I did NOT alter the factory position of the trigger bar spring.

    Stoning/polishing steps were done in areas where there was quite severe machining marks in the attempt to remove them without too much alteration of factory geometries. Polishing steps were in areas that were already pretty smooth, but simply to slick them up a bit. This was all done in an attempt to correct a substantially gritty and stagey DA trigger pull that was rough to the point of being audible.

    Irregular behavior: I first noticed this during dry fire using my LEFT hand. With the hammer at "half-cock" (i.e., the position the hammer rests after decocking), a pull of the trigger would result in the hammer falling early during its range of travel. Hammer would fall fully forward. This behavior happened maybe 30% of the time and it felt like the hammer was “slipping” off of something internally. Behavior was not manifesting, at least initially, when I would dry fire using my right hand. After some time of trying to deduce WTF was happening and why it was hand dependent, I figured out that I could replicate the issue with the right hand IF, when pulling the trigger rearward, I applied some slight pressure to the RIGHT with my trigger finger. So, apparently, there was something going on in my trigger mechanism that made it sensitive to right-biased lateral forces during the DA trigger press from half cock. Strangely, I could never get this behavior to happen with either hand from the full decocked position.

    My hypothesis is that somewhere along the way, I too severely altered the dimensions of the disconnector and trigger bar such that they no longer interfaced correctly. Being unable to isolate which one, I decided to just order a factory new disconnector and trigger bar directly from CZ. These parts were installed with zero alteration. Irregular behavior has been eliminated completely. I cannot, even with extreme pressures to the right or left, get the hammer to fall early. I’ll also say as an aside that that condition of both of these parts I received were substantially better than what shipped in my gun.

  4. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Is there a gap between the frame and the trigger bar? (See left frame in picture) I had a weird issue but it's not exactly like yours and the culprit was I think I polished the trigger bar too much. Replacing trigger bar fixed my issue, whatever it was

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  5. #15
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
    Location
    Wokelandia

    CZ P09 ignition problems

    Thanks for posting all this. I have a couple of thoughts. 1. There’s probably a Czech engineer somewhere doing a facepalm. 2. It’s interesting to see where the system is most sensitive. Bending the trigger bar spring is not something I have done—or will be doing.

    Has anyone successfully replaced a trigger bar spring? The armorers manual lists this as a non-serviceable part but you can buy it.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 07-10-2018 at 08:43 AM.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  6. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    The Sticks
    I'm thinking about buying P07 here shortly, and was planning on installing a pro upgrade kit..I'm guessing that the thing to do here is to leave the trigger bar and spring alone..no bending, no polishing..

  7. #17
    Member
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    Sep 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Thanks for posting all this. I have a couple of thoughts. 1. There’s probably a Czech engineer somewhere doing a facepalm. 2. It’s interesting to see where the system is most sensitive. Bending the trigger bar spring is not something I have done—or will be doing.

    Has anyone successfully replaced a trigger bar spring? The armorers manual lists this as a non-serviceable part but you can buy it.
    My trigger bar springs pop right out and go back in pretty easily

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  8. #18
    When I thought about getting one of these I remember seeing that a couple ones I checked out had noticeably canted hammers. I wonder if that could be related to this.

  9. #19
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Midwest
    I really admire you GJM. I have followed your experiences as a student/practitioner of the unique American martial art of pistolcraft on this and other venues for 10+ years. We are blessed that you have the time, talent and treasure to really wring out various platforms and set-ups. You have undoubtedly saved me thousands of dollars and scores of hours.

    I REALLY want to like the CZ platform. The concept of a 15+ round 9mm SA capable gun at under 1000 per with less recoil that a G34 is super attractive. I just do not know if I am brave enough to take the plunge.

  10. #20
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Feb 2011
    Location
    Auburn, WA
    To me, CZ's pistols have seemed to perennially be on the cusp of being "almost there." The corporate desire, resources and commitment seems to be there, as well as some strong factory sanctioned and unsanctioned aftermarket support.

    I have several friends, very active and competent shooters that have tested the Cee Zed waters and liked them, are committed to them and currently use them (albeit mostly for competition only)-but I also can say the same about Springfield XD pistols.

    There has been a bit of a perennial cloud hovering over CZ pistols for years, pertaining primarily to the durability (or the perceived/experienced lack of durability) of some key components, notably slide stops and trigger return springs as I recall-and those concerns centering around the CZ 75 family.

    From what I've seen, the PO7 seems to have evolved nicely, and garnered a decent reputation.

    The CZ 75 action has been simplified and strengthened with the Omega evolution according to CZ.

    In the past, I've personally had 4 CZ pistols (2 CZ 83s, one in .380 and one in 9 x 18 Makarov, and 2 CZ 75Bs). All of my CZ obtained NIB in the mid-to-late 1990s, and out of the 4, 2 were very problematic, both being returned for warranty service and then disposed of; the other 2 were nice, adequate performers, but also subsequently disposed of, as nether really excelled in there respective niches above and beyond what I had from other manufacturers.

    I currently have 2 CZ hunting rifles (a CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62 x 39 and a CZ 550 FS in .308), which I regard as both exceptional values and exceptionally well made.

    While I'm pleased that GJM is spending his money and efforts for himself and sharing with us on our behalf, I'm thinking a couple of things:

    1) a la Glock, when you stray from factory components/factory specifications, the chances of interesting events occurring compromising operational effectiveness appear to be significant-to the point where a basically stock gun might well be a perfectly acceptable duty/range/competition gun, a modified one really needs to be treated as only a range toy until carefully and thoroughly vetted;

    2) Other than being another option (and options are good...usually...), I'm personally uncertain of any significant specific benefits that are to be derived from a CZ as opposed to, say, a comparable Glock, HK or Beretta (or other similarly comparable viable and previously vetted) platform(s).

    But I appreciate GJM taking the time not only in doing what he does, but to objectively and dispassionately relay his empirical experiences to us.

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 07-10-2018 at 02:53 PM.

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