CZ P09 ignition problems

[GJM]

I think your last sentence identifys both the problem, and the solution. You're trying to get shadow like performance from a pistol that IMO, was'nt really designed to deliver that level of performance.. Wrong tool for the job. Maybe a shadow, or at a minium a SP01? I myself bought my P07 with the idea of it being a CCW. With that in mind, the mods I'm making are minium, extended firing pin, and springs, #18 hammer spring, and reduced power TRS, as well as doing what CZ didn't do, fully nitride the barrel.. For now, that'll do.. The old saying about lipstick on a pig comes to mind here..

Let’s be clear, the P09 is not close to a race gun. It is a gun designed for defensive use, and what Cajun does is improve the trigger characteristics, just like Wilson Combat or Ernest does with the 92 pistols. I never specified bleeding edge performance with these pistols, and in fact one of the three was sold by Bud’s as a law enforcement gun with the CGW Pro kit installed by CGW. I am not looking for anything more in performance than I currently get with a stock PPQ/Q5, or a G34 with a minus connector and 5.0 striker spring. What appeals to me about the P09 is the combination of weight, DA/SA trigger, accuracy and overall ergonomics.

Folks have a number of theories about what is going on here, but they are just theories at this point. If Cajun is right, it is a peculiarity of the design of Omega trigger system, and that might have nothing to do with polishing or bent springs. Likely, there is something about how I interact with the gun that is a contributing factor. Without me shooting your modified P09 pistols, I have no idea if I would get the same result with your gun.

[cheby]

I didn't have a chance to deal with Omega triggers but I worked with quite a few shadows. The parts that many people use to improve the triggers are not necessarily drop in parts. Sometimes they're good to go right away but often they are required some fitting. CGW sells parts that are supposed to be drop in according to their website site. That's not necessarily 100% accurate. Especially short disconnectors often need to be fitted. This is just my speculation but it looks like it's a disco issue.

[Trukinjp13]

I am sorry but I keep coming back to the fact that stock guns are not having this problem. So if the guns having the issue are ones filled with aftermarket parts that are then all tuned a certain way. It just seems very coincidental.

[miller_man]

I am sorry but I keep coming back to the fact that stock guns are not having this problem. So if the guns having the issue are ones filled with aftermarket parts that are then all tuned a certain way. It just seems very coincidental.

Or how about serveral of us on here have semi tuned ones that we can’t MAKE fail - even after reading and trying exactly how GJM describes.

I can’t get past the fact that CGW says it’s an omega trigger problem when the issue is pretty much unheard of outside of their pro kit parts+tune.

[ralph]

Or how about serveral of us on here have semi tuned ones that we can’t MAKE fail - even after reading and trying exactly how GJM describes.

I can’t get past the fact that CGW says it’s an omega trigger problem when the issue is pretty much unheard of outside of their pro kit parts+tune.

I think that's just CGW throwing out a blanket statement to cover their ass.. Myself, I'm beginning to think that in GJM's case, it just might be a combnation of CGW parts, and how he interacts with the gun. In a earlier post, he said that neither his stock P07, P09 would do this, and several other people who have both stock and modifed guns have had no problems. I'm guessing they're not interacting with the gun like GJM does either..Outside of this thread, I haven't seen the issue reported elsewhere, for that matter, I haven't seen too many complaints about the P07/09, after the first generation (the "duty" model) which had some issues with the polymer frame. This may end up being one of those issues that may never get completely resolved..

[GJM]

I have had this problem with my three Cajun tuned P09 pistols. I have not had this problem with my Cajun P07, or a stock P07 and stock P09 that I have been messing with. However, I have many thousands of rounds through the Cajun P09 pistols, as they are my competition guns, and a few hundred rounds each at most through the other P pistols.

To gather data, when I say “Cajun,” I mean a Cajun installed Pro kit. When I say stock, I mean stock except sights and the Cajun firing pin roll pin. When I say user installed Cajun parts, I think you know what I mean.

1) I have no idea whether this issue is somehow specific to the P09, so who else has a Cajun P09, and has shot substantial rounds through it? Same question for the P09, either stock or with user installed Cajun parts? I am interested in pistols with the decocker and shot DA, as opposed to cocked and locked, as this problem only happens to me DA.

2) for those that think the problem is a bent spring, what is your theory as to how a bent spring causes the hammer to stop short on the shelf and make zero contact with the primer? Why is this problem only happening DA and never SA?

3) focusing on my sense that this happens when I get some extra finger on the trigger, how might my finger contacting the frame cause the hammer to stop short on the shelf?

[J&L]

Watching the second video it looks like the sear isn’t moving the same when malfunctioning. I think I would try a factory hammer and sear spring. I came up with that idea after reading that the factory ones you have work. So that seems like the first thing to try.
I understand the frustration that you feel. Having been there myself with other things.


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[miller_man]

1) I have no idea whether this issue is somehow specific to the P09, so who else has a Cajun P09, and has shot substantial rounds through it? Same question for the P09, either stock or with user installed Cajun parts? I am interested in pistols with the decocker and shot DA, as opposed to cocked and locked, as this problem only happens to me DA.

P-09 #1 CGW -15lb hammer spring, extended firing pin+spring, trigger return spring - with 6,925 rounds so far.
P-09 #2 same CGW parts except 18lb hammer spring, with 1,250 rounds so far. Both shot with decocker from DA

2) for those that think the problem is a bent spring, what is your theory as to how a bent spring causes the hammer to stop short on the shelf and make zero contact with the primer? Why is this problem only happening DA and never SA?

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=73748.0 Again, linking this thread. I just re-read it, again. It doesn't explain why the bent spring causes this to happen, but it appears a few people observed it does cause the hammer to stop short of hitting the firing pin, and only in DA.

3) focusing on my sense that this happens when I get some extra finger on the trigger, how might my finger contacting the frame cause the hammer to stop short on the shelf?

When you say your finger contacting the frame - you are referring to the tip of your finger wrapping around the trigger and touching the left side of the frame?

I am pretty sure I have all the pro kit parts in my parts bin. My p-07 is just sitting in the safe. I may just swap in the pro parts, bend the spring "too far" and see if I can induce the issue.

[GuanoLoco]

All this fuss about spring bending - I looked it up: https://cajungunworks.com/product/49...pring-9mm40sw/

It’s a $3 piece of bent wire that someone had to bend in a jig to get it that way in the first place. Buy some spares and use 1-2 to determine the min/max of bending. I can’t imagine, just from looking at the geometry, that you couldn’t have a little more/less pressure up on the trigger bar with good results.

[timotab]

All this fuss about spring bending - I looked it up: https://cajungunworks.com/product/49...pring-9mm40sw/

It’s a $3 piece of bent wire that someone had to bend in a jig to get it that way in the first place. Buy some spares and use 1-2 to determine the min/max of bending. I can’t imagine, just from looking at the geometry, that you couldn’t have a little more/less pressure up on the trigger bar with good results.

I've bent some both ways without replacing just to get an idea of how much I could get away with and how much of a difference it made.