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Thread: Ben Stoeger drill

  1. #11
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enel View Post
    Can you clarify what you mean here? I take it as: this drill removes those variables and focuses on shooting doubles only from a ready position.
    In the drill you care about shooting as many Alphas as possible, at the fastest splits you can manage, at the chosen distance.

    My interpretation (and I’ve done this in class). Yes - eliminate variables. Set up in a solid, wide stance. Get a great grip. Cock the hammer for the first shot. Get a good sight picture using the appropriate focal point (target, front sight). Start the timer. When you are ready, shoot 4 splits, ignoring the time before the first split and between splits. Review the hits and the split times ONLY.

    Ben publishes some goal split times and accuracy expectations in the Skills & Drills book. Before reading that, I was shocked at what was possible with a little practice, even at distance.
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  2. #12
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    Here’s the video of Stoeger explaining the drill.

    The main focus is not only to shoot all A’s but to improve split speeds by having the shooter meet the required split speeds he defines in his book. Instead of the shooter trying to figure this out on his own, he tells them, “these are the split speeds you need to be shooting at these distances” then makes them do it. The shooter is then forced to figure out what they need to do to shoot A’s at that cadence.

    This is similar to what I have been trying to do with half accelerator drills, where I have been really focussing on split and transition speeds at 15 and 25 yards. The doubles drill goes straight to the end goal of hitting the split speeds required and then having the shooter figure out what they need to do to keep the rounds in the A zone. Goes backs to Todd’s mantra of sometimes “you have to go faster to get faster”.

    At least that is my take on what I heard in the podcast.

    Last edited by Clobbersaurus; 07-05-2018 at 10:20 AM.
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  3. #13
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    I shot the above drill today. I can see why Stoeger burns through so many rounds with it. I burned through over 200 rounds just on this drill alone. I like it a lot and I found it showed some problems and weaknesses that I need to work on (and did today). It was also a really excellent sight tracking and shot calling exercise. I’ll can see this drill becoming a staple for sure.

    25 Yard target, you can see from the white tape that my shot pattern was low. I found that when I really cranked down with my left hand and applied pressure to the frame with my support hand thumb, that my tendancy to shoot low went away. I also identified sight tracking issues when my grip pressure was not fully applied. The stock sights on my Gen 5 did not help with this drill and I’m sure a thinner front sight would help. I shot 100 rounds on this drill at 25 Yards. .35 splits were quite possible, but grip pressure is critical at this distance.


    15 yard target below. .25 splits was a good solid pace for all A hits. Again, grip pressure really helped to keep the sights tracking straighter. If I went faster I placed shots low. I did 60 rounds at this distance.


    7 Yards. .18 splits were fairly easy, if it wanted to go faster I had to loosen my support hand grip a bit. .15 splits became possible but at the risk of pushing shots low or low left. 50 rounds at this distance.

    Last edited by Clobbersaurus; 07-08-2018 at 10:45 PM. Reason: Grammar
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
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  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Clobbersaurus View Post
    Here’s the video of Stoeger explaining the drill.

    The main focus is not only to shoot all A’s but to improve split speeds by having the shooter meet the required split speeds he defines in his book. Instead of the shooter trying to figure this out on his own, he tells them, “these are the split speeds you need to be shooting at these distances” then makes them do it. The shooter is then forced to figure out what they need to do to shoot A’s at that cadence.
    He didn't mention any specific times in our class but I took it as it was implied that a shooter will be shooting at a pace that is considered fast/good for a given distance. Change a bolded sentence to "see part of fundamentals breaks down at what point and address that", and that's how I understand the drill. Shooting As is not a goal per se; consistent execution of fundamentals at a competitive [for the distance] speed is and As happen as a result of that correct execution. The reason (or my interpretation of it) for a repetitive nature of it, multiple pairs, is building up the consistency since the fundamentals should never break down under the repetitive stress of shooting multiple pairs at different distances in matches.
    Last edited by YVK; 07-09-2018 at 08:00 PM.
    Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter Clobbersaurus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YVK View Post
    He didn't mention any specific times in our class but I took it as it was implied that a shooter will be shooting at a pace that is considered fast/good for a given distance. Change a bolded sentence to "see part of fundamentals breaks down at what point and address that", and that's how I understand the drill. Shooting As is not a goal per se; consistent execution of fundamentals at a competitive [for the distance] speed is and As happen as a result of that correct execution. The reason (or my interpretation of it) for a repetitive nature of it, multiple pairs, is building up the consistency since the fundamentals should never break down under the repetitive stress of shooting multiple pairs at different distances in matches.
    Thanks for the clarification. This drill has had a pretty huge affect on me actually. I noticed after my range session yesterday that the grip tape on the left side of my gun had slipped down and onto my mag release. I thought it was due to a combination of old grip tape, sweat and exertion during my session. So I replaced it with new tape tonight, then did my usual 20 minute dry practice routine. I was gripping the gun harder, based on what I had learned in the drill, and whouldn’t you know it, the new grip tape had slipped down onto the mag release again. I was clamping down so hard on the gun I was moving the grip tape. I’ve never had that happen before. I will likely just have to remove it now, based on this new grip pressure.
    "Next time somebody says USPSA or IPSC is all hosing, junk punch them." - Les Pepperoni
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  6. #16
    Member GuanoLoco's Avatar
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    Always grip it harder weak hand.Relax your strong hand just enough the let the trigger finger move freely.

    That’s when the magic happens.
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  7. #17
    Member JHC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GJM View Post
    YVK recently took a course with Ben, that he has favorably reviewed in the AAR section. Discussing the course with me on the phone, he mentioned that Ben demoed one particular drill, and apparently it is a primary drill that Ben shoots 25,000-30,000 rounds a year. That got me very interested.

    The drill is to set up one USPSA target, and draw and shoot two shots at a pace you can make all A’s, pause momentarily and shoot two shots, and repeat for eight or ten rounds total. This burns in the discipline to shoot all A hits, in the two shot strings common to USPSA. Apparently Ben shoots this same drill from up close to out far.

    My wife and I have been shooting this for the last two weeks, and apparently Ben knows something (smile) as we have been shooting a whole lot of A’s, on demand, at varying distances. It is incredibly easy to set-up, and even lends itself to those stuck shooting inside or with limited range gear.

    Try it, you may like it.
    So elegant!

    Reminds me of this quote: "Art is the end of science and beginning of nature." I think that was Bruce Lee.
    “Remember, being healthy is basically just dying as slowly as possible,” Ricky Gervais

  8. #18
    I shot this drill yesterday after watching the video and I must say it was very helpful. I know I only scratched the surface of its effectiveness due to my skill level but forcing myself to learn the pace of .2 splits and then forcing myself to learn what it looks like on the sights was very helpful. I then ran Blake drills right after and could distinguish that my splits were lower (.24ish). It’s crazy I could tell the difference in .03 seconds after just that little time practicing.

    My biggest takeaway was that at 5-7 yards I can shoot pretty much all A’s at near .2 splits. I also learned my natural pace that I thought was fast was around .35 splits.
    "Shooting is 90% mental. The rest is in your head." -Nils

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