Thai Students Trapped in Flooded Cave Found Alive

[TAZ]

TGS--correct, however, the deep diving risks seemed more controlled and could generally be calculated, with redundant systems in place to help mitigate them. A lot of the cave diving seemed to have more uncontrolled risks--like the scooter batteries dying deep in a cave and not having enough gas left to swim back out...

Re. the photos of this incident with a lot of folks using single air tanks--that tends to be a recipe for disaster in more demanding technical diving pursuits. We typically always used doubles as well as a bail-out bottle and a couple of additional stage/deco tanks.

I’m with Doc on this. I don’t have the certs, but I’ve didn’t some QT under water. Done the cave thing, ONLY when it absofuckingkuteky had to happen. When I was much younger, had a chance to go to Belize and assist with mapping/exploring some aquafirs. That team if serious cave divers came back with some of the most beautiful pics I’ve ever seen, but they also came back a diver short. It was all fun and games till it wasn’t. Caves, especially unmapped unknown caves are death traps. Needless to say, I don’t do caves.

[Drang]

Nope. Nope, nope, nope. There's a whole lotta nope goin' on.
The infographic in this tweet is if anything worse than the one a few posts ago.
https://twitter.com/@twitter/status/1015940341558435843

[TGS]

I’m with Doc on this. I don’t have the certs, but I’ve didn’t some QT under water. Done the cave thing, ONLY when it absofuckingkuteky had to happen. When I was much younger, had a chance to go to Belize and assist with mapping/exploring some aquafirs. That team if serious cave divers came back with some of the most beautiful pics I’ve ever seen, but they also came back a diver short. It was all fun and games till it wasn’t. Caves, especially unmapped unknown caves are death traps. Needless to say, I don’t do caves.

I talked to DocGKR about this on the phone.

Compared to caves, I know more people who either got bent or didn't make it home when doing everything right on complex decompression profiles. In caves, every single one I knew was due to them disregarding the rules. Either they were untrained, or they were exceptional but took exceptional risks, disregarding commonly held rules so they could push it.

The reason I know more people hurt/dead on open ocean deep dives (let's say 180ft+) is because decompression theory is exactly that......theory. It's not a known science. The US Navy dive tables are essentially a tabulated result to achieve a historical % of only so many people getting DCS. It was really just trial or error. Everything since then.....Variable Permeability Model, Residual Gas Bubble Model, Buhlmann, are essentially all just educated guesses. So you can do everything right and still get bent.

That doesn't take into account gear malfunctions at depth, or human error.....like switching onto the wrong gas at the wrong depth, and either going hypoxic or the reverse.

Caves are not death traps. Among trained divers that follow the rules, deaths are actually pretty rare. The same is not true for deep dives.

[RJ]

I talked to DocGKR about this on the phone.

Compared to caves, I know more people who either got bent or didn't make it home when doing everything right on complex decompression profiles. In caves, every single one I knew was due to them disregarding the rules. Either they were untrained, or they were exceptional but took exceptional risks, disregarding commonly held rules so they could push it.

The reason I know more people hurt/dead on open ocean deep dives (let's say 180ft+) is because decompression theory is exactly that......theory. It's not a known science. The US Navy dive tables are essentially a tabulated result to achieve a historical % of only so many people getting DCS. It was really just trial or error. Everything since then.....Variable Permeability Model, Residual Gas Bubble Model, Buhlmann, are essentially all just educated guesses. So you can do everything right and still get bent.

That doesn't take into account gear malfunctions at depth, or human error.....like switching onto the wrong gas at the wrong depth, and either going hypoxic or the reverse.

Caves are not death traps. Among trained divers that follow the rules, deaths are actually pretty rare. The same is not true for deep dives.

This.

Cave Diving is a relatively rare thing in my experience, and accidents exceedingly rare. Might be the high cost of equipment and training, I don’t know. I would defer to @TGS.

However, almost anyone can get certified, put on an 80 and jump off a Caribbean boat dive and overstay a “120’” Drive by a few minutes, or blow through a safety stop that should have been a deco stop.

I used to read the D.A.N accident cliffs notes (I’m not sure if they still publish those) and there were alarmingly frequent stories of sport divers who ended up in the chamber.

That’s kind of why I always counseled people after their five Open Water dives about all they could do now was to start to learn to dive. I only felt comfortable after about 100 or so.

[Lon]

Last photo of Petty Officer Gunan:



Greater love.....

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I knew Edd Sorenson (quoted in the article) when I was still cave diving.

I'd trust him over a bunch of fucking navy divers and doctors with no experience in cave diving.

Just chiming in to say that I hope that doctor reference was not addressing the cave diving doctor (Richard Harris) reported to be on scene. While I understand your concern about having non-cave trained divers in that environment, Dr Harry (as he's known to he's mates) isn't your ordinary doctor, and he'd be up there with the best of the best in the international cave diving community. IMO it was a wise choice to request his help.

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Hats off to you divers, but I don't have enough of a deathwish to spend that kind of time in an environment otherwise not permissible for human life. I see the appeal but, frankly, my commute feels like enough of an existential threat as-is. Bottom of the ocean after having seen at least 3 of the Jaws movies? Big old pile of nope right there.

Deathwish? Strewth mate - the safest place to be somedays is in a flooded cave! Have you seen the crazies that live above ground and breathe air. ;-) Not too many crazies down there in the caves with you. I've actually had closer encounters driving to cave sites on the road than I have diving in actual caves.

FWIW - I used to think like you. I remember thinking I'd never be seen in an overhead environment, but after learning the truths about cave diving (it's not an adrenalin rushing extreme sport, but it's rather quite tranquil for the most part) - some of my best life experiences have been exploring flooded cave systems. For the most part (ignoring what the rescuers are going through here - that is different) - cave diving can be extremely safe. It's only the perception (or more the unknown for those who don't know the facts about cave diving) that give the willies.

Although - I do feel for the cave divers and rescuers in this situations. A lot of "do not wants" from a cave divers perspective at close to the top would have to be the urgency of the job. With cave diving - you want the opposite. The ability to call the dive whenver for whatever reason, and come back another day if things don't work out, and to take things slowly into a new cave system. In this case - it seems as though even the trained rescue cave divers are going to be pushed to limits and expectations that are quite dangerous.

My hat comes off and prayers go out to those willing to put their lives at risk - and to the family of the navy diver who lost his life attempting to rescue the victims.

[O4L]

Just reported that eight boys have been rescued so far

[psalms144.1]

Four a day sounds like a perfectly legit plan. Continuing to pray for the safety of EVERYONE involved...

[RoyGBiv]

Four a day sounds like a perfectly legit plan. Continuing to pray for the safety of EVERYONE involved...

Do they go for five tomorrow or leave the coach for day 4?