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Thread: Thai Students Trapped in Flooded Cave Found Alive

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWT View Post

    Honestly, it reminds me of free solo’ing rock climbing. I have a lot of respect for you.

    By and of itself when done with incredible thoroughness, thoughtfulness, etc. you can do it safely. However, unless someone’s life depended on it. I’m going to go ahead and say I’m good. I have enough excitement in my life that that one is probably not going to happen.
    Meh. Totally different than free solo'ing cliffs, where you have zero safety net.

    To take a term from the tactical realm, it's all about your TTPs: Techniques, tactics, procedures. Not so much bravado. The prevalent personality types are P-F.com nerds and high functioning autists, not jocked out adrenaline junkies. Engineers, doctors, and technical types in general are over-represented in the cave community compared to most other hobbies.

    Lights? Minimum three.

    Getting tangled in line? There's specific technique to laying line which prevents this, as well as techniques for working around/maintaining contact with the line. Have to cut the line? There's techniques for that, as well as techniques for rejoining the cut line.

    Getting confused in the cave and going the wrong way, going deeper inside the cave instead of heading out? There's techniques for that.

    Gas? You only use 1/3 going in, max. That gives 1/3 to get out, 1/3rd in reserve, and your buddy also has that same reserve. If the cave gets more complicated such as it siphons heavily (meaning the current is sucking in, making it harder to get out), you may only use 1/6th going in, giving you the vast majority of your gas to get out. In some caves, divers will sometimes place an extra stage bottle (an extra scuba tank) attached to the line prior to a particular section of a cave where you could have more trouble than regular if you were to have cascading problems.

    Someone panicking and taking the regulator out of your mouth? We literally set up our gear expecting that to occur. No big deal.

    The portrayed death in the film would have never happened with proper cave gear due to the redundancy of our systems, and when wearing doubles the presence of an isolation valve...not to mention the ability to easily reach the valves to begin with unlike typical "recreational" gear. Unlike recreational divers that commonly drag their shit loosly, routinely tearing the shit out of reefs in tropical paradises...a cave diver's gear is much more well secured and streamlined, preventing such incidents from occurring.

    Silt outs? Yeah, it happens, but when people don't have the emotional control it usually shows during the final exercise in cave class where your instructor takes you off the line, completely lights out, and you have to find your way back to the line. There's specific techniques for that which work.

    It's really not the adrenaline rush extreme activity that people think it is. It's really quite relaxing. The vast majority of deaths come from people who are not trained cave divers, which is one of the points they tried to make in the movie. Military divers usually possess the self-control and in-water confidence to become successful cave divers, but they're taught zero of the TTPs for cave diving and do not possess the proper gear which is almost entirely different from the ground up. When someone who is a certified cave diver dies in a cave, it's almost always 1) They broke the rules to "push" more than they should have, or 2) Their creator decided it was time to punch their ticket, and they had a medical emergency while underwater.
    Last edited by TGS; 08-12-2022 at 04:21 PM.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by BWT View Post
    Cave diving is honestly probably the triangulation of three / four things that give me the willies.

    1.) Being underwater in the dark.
    2.) Being in confined spaces.
    3.) Being in a cave (with or without water)
    4.) The thought of stirring up silt and running out of air in the corresponding cloud of silt.

    Honestly, it reminds me of free solo’ing rock climbing. I have a lot of respect for you.

    By and of itself when done with incredible thoroughness, thoughtfulness, etc. you can do it safely. However, unless someone’s life depended on it. I’m going to go ahead and say I’m good. I have enough excitement in my life that that one is probably not going to happen.
    Now this is the thoughtful way to start a conversation with @TGS about cave diving.

    I’m all “fuck a bunch of that shit, I ain’t gonna go get myself wedged up in some dark ass under water rocks so the cave sharks can come and eat my legs while I’m still alive”

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    Now this is the thoughtful way to start a conversation with @TGS about cave diving.

    I’m all “fuck a bunch of that shit, I ain’t gonna go get myself wedged up in some dark ass under water rocks so the cave sharks can come and eat my legs while I’m still alive”
    1) Water is slippery. It's much easier to get unstuck in underwater caves than dry caving ("spelunking").

    2) It's not the sharks you gotta worry about, it's gators.

    3) Don't worry so much, you've got the rest of your life to figure it out.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  4. #84
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    I was a climber for many years, and a diver for several...I don't relish the thought of bad things happening in either environment.

    But it pays to keep as calm a mind as possible in either one.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  5. #85
    It's a phenomenal story for sure. The part about having to stop and shoot the kids up with additional ketamine is freaky.

    I used to climb until I tore my rotator cuffs, and I love diving. I've done enough zero vis stuff during inspection work to know that I don't like it, but if it's not an overhead environment it's no biggy. I spend my days in confined spaces, mostly piece of shit crawlspaces, some as tight as about 10" high. I've never been stuck but had some close calls. The thought of being in a squeeze like that underwater where getting stuck could mean dying takes the zen out of the dive for me. I'll stick to open water and nontechnical wrecks, thank you very much. If I quit pissing money away on guns and optics, I could buy that CCR, though...

  6. #86
    banana republican blues's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMCutter View Post
    It's a phenomenal story for sure. The part about having to stop and shoot the kids up with additional ketamine is freaky.

    I used to climb until I tore my rotator cuffs, and I love diving. I've done enough zero vis stuff during inspection work to know that I don't like it, but if it's not an overhead environment it's no biggy. I spend my days in confined spaces, mostly piece of shit crawlspaces, some as tight as about 10" high. I've never been stuck but had some close calls. The thought of being in a squeeze like that underwater where getting stuck could mean dying takes the zen out of the dive for me. I'll stick to open water and nontechnical wrecks, thank you very much. If I quit pissing money away on guns and optics, I could buy that CCR, though...
    I can relate. Weight training has helped immensely with that, but now that I'm older it's only helping to stave off what would be much worse otherwise.
    There's nothing civil about this war.

  7. #87
    The whole Thai/flooded cave rescue falls firmly in the "NOPE" category for me. I remember watching the events unfold with great interest. We are lucky to have those with the courage to have pulled that off.


    -Rainman

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post

    To take a term from the tactical realm, it's all about your TTPs: Techniques, tactics, procedures. Not so much bravado. The prevalent personality types are P-F.com nerds and high functioning autists, not jocked out adrenaline junkies. Engineers, doctors, and technical types in general are over-represented in the cave community compared to most other hobbies.
    My wife, whom is literally a trained expert on this; was watching the documentary with me and specifically the interviews with the professional cave divers. She noted that they all were undeniably high functioning, autistic adults.

    You may all now enjoy the low hanging fruit I just handed you on a silver platter. You are welcome 🙏 🙂
    #RESIST

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleLebowski View Post
    My wife, whom is literally a trained expert on this; was watching the documentary with me and specifically the interviews with the professional cave divers. She noted that they all were undeniably high functioning, autistic adults.

    You may all now enjoy the low hanging fruit I just handed you on a silver platter. You are welcome 🙏 🙂
    Had a cave diver work for me for awhile.
    That guy was brilliant on the stuff he was working on, but his interpersonal skills were absolutely on the spectrum being described.

    Is cave driving an example of sensory exclusion that might make it so attractive.

  10. #90
    Has anyone here watched the new movie on this rescue (not talking about the excellent documentary)?
    #RESIST

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