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Thread: Do You Use The Self Defense Ammunition Across The Board.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    My pistolforum-fu is weak...
    https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....unition-To-Buy

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    Penetration and expansion do factor in.....

    My point is, always has been, and always will be that if people spent as much time on the range actually improving their skills as they do worrying about “what bullet is best”, then the type of bullet will be much less relevant.
    Worrying about ammo can be done at home or on the internet and requires less time and effort than going to the range.

    There is nothing wrong with trying to select good performing ammo.

    My philosophy of selecting ammo has changed over the years.

    At one point I wanted the +P plusiest ammo that performed decently.

    Now I look for something off DocGKR's list that, and the first most important factor is that it shoots to point of aim at 25 yards. The second being that it shoots the second the tightest groups.

    I actually prefer standard velocity 124 grain Federal HST over the +P kind because I am more concerned with faster follow-up shots. The 124 Federal HST Grain ammo seems to shoot point of aim or closest to it at 25 yards in a wider variety of 9mms that I own, so I go with that. I have some guns that seem to shoot to point of aim with the 147 grain HST, and on others it seems to shoot high or doesn't group well. Of course some of these guns have been relegated to the gunsafe for several years, so where they shoot is largely academic.

    The lone exception to this is the Kahr PM-9, a pocket gun that seems to shoot best and is most controllable with the Federal 115 grain Tac-XP. It is listed as a +P load but does not feel like it. It seems to have less recoil than the Federal 124 grain HST, and this is an important factor in controlling a tiny 9mm with a tiny grip.

  3. #63
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    My point is that I didn't start this thread with the intent of starting a "Which ammo is best" pissing contest and that im sorry it went there.
    I didn’t take it to be a pissing contest...... I simply said I buy what’s cheapest or on sale, and that it is much less important than people make it out to be.

    I can’t do much about where folks took it from there.
    Last edited by Odin Bravo One; 07-30-2018 at 11:49 PM.
    You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.

  4. #64
    In reading this thread after the time to edit has elapsed, I came across my over-edited post reads like something written by a bad translator program:

    For example:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ed L View Post
    Now I look for something off DocGKR's list that, and the first most important factor is that it shoots to point of aim at 25 yards. The second being that it shoots the second the tightest groups.
    What I meant was that the first most important criteria is that it shoots as close to point of aim as possible at 25 yards. Of course I shoot it at closer distances as well.

    The second criteria is that it shoots the best groups of the competing loads at that distance. The competing ammo is selected from DOCGKR's list.

    I also wrote:
    The lone exception to this is the Kahr PM-9, a pocket gun that seems to shoot best and is most controllable with the Federal 115 grain Tac-XP. It is listed as a +P load but does not feel like it. It seems to have less recoil than the Federal 124 grain HST, and this is an important factor in controlling a tiny 9mm with a tiny grip.
    That should be the Black Hills Tac-XP, not the Federal since Federal doesn't manufacture this ammo.
    Last edited by Ed L; 07-31-2018 at 02:00 AM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    I didn’t take it to be a pissing contest...... I simply said I buy what’s cheapest or on sale, and that it is much less important than people make it out to be.

    I can’t do much about where folks took it from there.
    My apologies I must have misunderstood what I was reading

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by VT1032 View Post
    What payoff? I guess, the point I'm dancing around is that velocity in the handgun range is relatively meaningless if you are talking about two rounds that otherwise perform in a relatively similar fashion (ie. both penetrate and expand similarly, which is the case with these two rounds). It's not until you get to rifle velocities where it has any real impact on terminal ballistics. The only two factors that really matter aside from shot placement are expansion and penetration and both of those rounds do that in spades. Both are great, proven rounds that would perform well out of any of your guns. I personally would rather have a consistent point of aim and low recoil accross all of my handguns.
    Velocity isn’t meaningless. Energy isn’t meaningless. Momentum isn’t meaningless. If any of that were true, there’d be no +P offerings, and there’d certainly be no +P offerings.

    Of course there are other factors involved, and at some point added velocity isn’t worth the extra X, Y, or Z.

    As for the payoff, if one round shows better performance in one gun, and another round in another gun, and have plenty of both on hand, why wouldn’t I use the best for each? Point of impact between the two is negligible (not meaningless). As for recoil, I’m using the lower recoiling round in the gun where it matters more, and is more noticeable. In the larger 92, it’s hard to tell the difference between the two.

  7. #67
    Site Supporter Odin Bravo One's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    My apologies I must have misunderstood what I was reading
    You don’t owe anyone shit........especially me.

    There are plenty of people here stuck on stupid, but I don’t get the impression you’re one of them.
    Last edited by Odin Bravo One; 07-31-2018 at 06:50 AM.
    You can get much more of what you want with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean M View Post
    Penetration and expansion do factor in.....

    My point is, always has been, and always will be that if people spent as much time on the range actually improving their skills as they do worrying about “what bullet is best”, then the type of bullet will be much less relevant.

    Ball ammunition has easily killed hundreds of times the number of people killed by “high performance” ammunition.

    The Indian has much more influence in stopping a fight than the arrow.
    Thanks for the follow up. I can't argue with any of that.

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