Thanks Cluster. I'm not trying to start anything, just asking for your assessment of the M&P design. I have a growing interest in learning more about the M&P with safety, CZ P07 and PX4C as alternatives to a G19 with the goal of AIWB.Originally Posted by Clusterfrack
My own reservations re. the M&P are over the fully tensioned striker but I do prefer the hinged trigger over the Glock style.
Alright, here goes. This is based on my experience with the M&P 1.
1. Striker safety cleaning and service requires removal of the rear sight. That alone is a complete dealbreaker for me, and suggests second rate engineering. Sights are simply not something that should be removed repeatedly.
2. Trigger lacks a distinct reset, and pretty much requires aftermarket parts to be even as good as a Glock. The 2.0 somewhat addresses this.
3. Accuracy issues that persisted despite repeated claims that it was addressed. Evidently S&W did not engineer the barrel and locking block properly. I've personally seen 2 M&Ps that had 12" of vertical stringing, went back to service, and continued to have the problem.
It's likely that folks with more experience with the M&P will be able to discuss this in more detail. I truly hope I'm shown wrong in my dislike of these guns.
“There is no growth in the comfort zone.”--Jocko Willink
"You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
#1 is absolutely false! There’s NO reason to remove the sight to access the striker safety. Remove the striker, and blow some air into the channel. If you think it’s gunked, spray some CLP, and blow it out.
#2 Riding the reset is something appeals to Glock users, and I don’t know that Glock designed the pistol with that in mind. It certainly became part of their marketing, but as a Ruger sponsored friend told me, if your riding the reset, you not shooting fast enough.
#3 I had an M&P Pro 5”, and it was kind of ragged at 25 yards. My other M&P pistols are fine, and they were manufactured in 2015.
*The hinged trigger is awful for me, and I’ve replaced all of my M&P triggers with Apex.
Last edited by FrankB; 06-25-2018 at 11:50 PM.
The accuracy issues were confined to the 9mm models. The .40 cal’s were decent and the M&P 45s were exceptionally accurate.
Frank proctor reported M&P 40s with 40 to 9 conversion barrels consistently shot better than the factory 9mm 1.0’s. Weird but indicates a flaw in the 9mm rather than 5ne M&P being flawed over all. Remember the M&P was originally engineered to be a .40 cal
Cluster pretty much described M&P concerns presented by many. For some reason the 40 cal and .45 ACP versions have shown more consistent accuracy. Some have found the compact 9mm offering to be more accurate than full size pistols. The weird design requiring rear sight removal for accessing slide internals dates back to 1954 when the first Model 39's hit the market. I try to drink Smith kool aid and sometimes gulp from a pitcher. I wring my hands at the company's inability to really fix this design. I wonder why industry consultants were not hired to assist. I will buy another M&P in the near future to indulge my passion. But, if i were playing for keeps like some here, I'd carry something else. I'm sorry to say this.
I’m in bed (LOL), and it took seconds to remove the striker, and have clear access to the safety block. I don’t use any oils in my striker channel, so it’s clean as a whistle in there.
*Glock pistols have a safety block located alongside the extractor, and might be more likely to need a cleaning than the M&P’s rear located safety block.
Last edited by FrankB; 06-26-2018 at 12:55 AM.
This is my M&P. There are many like it, but this one is mine. It hasn't been cleaned or lubricated other than when enough mud got under the sear to prevent it from moving down to release the striker... so I rinsed it in water while brushing with a tooth brush, then added a single drop of oil... the first in almost four years.
This pistol was issued to me specifically as a range gun. It never has, nor will it ever be used in the field or off duty to protect myself. I stopped cleaning it and lubing it around 2014-the beginning of 2015 and it probably has somewhere around 35,000 - 45,000 rounds through it. That's ridiculously low compared to some of my partners' M&Ps that have upwards of 100,000 rounds. It's low because I really don't like the M&P. It doesn't fit my hand right (I feel like I'm holding a baseball rather than having the web of my hand pushed into the grip tang) and none of the grip inserts feel right compared to other guns. I'm far from monogamous when it comes to handguns... those who know me would never be surprised to see me show up with a different gun... even multiple times a week. I love shooting my 1911s, HKs, Glocks, and Berettas. The M&P is OK to shoot, but I LOVE abusing the living shit out of my M&P.
The first part of this was the lack of cleaning and lubrication for years. Then, when rumors overtook reality in my department I decided to really tune up the abuse. I dropped it in muddy rain-runoff creek water. No malfunctions. I buried it in sand. No malfunctions. Back to the creek to shove it into the mud. A few malfunctions in the first mag and then 100% reliability for several hundred rounds. The picture is after the mud.
Then I decided to throw it into a mud puddle that was almost clay-like. It was bad. I cleared the barrel and racked the slide. I managed one and a half magazines before the striker tail pulled enough mud into the sear to prevent it from being able to release the striker. This required some running water and a toothbrush to try to get as much mud from under the sear as I could (I refuse to detail strip the pistol). I checked the striker/firing pin channel, and it was squeaky clean even after all of this. The problem was the crap under the sear. I could have detail stripped it, but instead, I added a drop of oil and started working it. The oil did the trick and allowed the mud to migrate away.
Most recently I lined up a recruit class and had each one load a magazine. They each fired 17rds and then set the pistol down so the next could step up, load, and shoot. I fired the remaining mag or so to make 370 rounds in less than ten minutes. Then we dunked the gun in ice water from a recruit's cooler and I put three mags through the gun. Then I buried it in dirt and put three more mags through the gun. No malfunctions.
I used the gun today to teach another academy class... It still has dirt and mud all over it. No malfunctions in any of the demos. The trigger kinda really sucks but that's what one gets when they love abusing a gun more than shooting it.
Oh yea... I may change the recoil spring this Thursday. It will be the second change in a round count that, should I have followed the manufacturer's recommendations, would have required somewhere around 7-9 recoil spring changes.
It may not be the most accurate gun, and it may even have design "flaws", but it still shoots better than most people can shoot it with severe neglect and abuse.
So you’re able to replace the firing pin block spring without removing the rear sight?
I’m in bed (LOL), and it took seconds to remove the striker, and have clear access to the safety block. I don’t use any oils in my striker channel, so it’s clean as a whistle in there.
*Glock pistols have a safety block located alongside the extractor, and might be more likely to need a cleaning than the M&P’s rear located safety block.
Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy
No, but Cluster said cleaning. I do own a quality sight pusher, and I’ve never had the need to replace the safety block spring because of wear.
Edit: Cluster DID say “cleaning and service” in his post. I’m a fair guy.... and own a sight pusher. :-D
Last edited by FrankB; 06-26-2018 at 08:18 AM.
It’s not so much riding the reset that’s the issue so much as a lot of the 1.0s had a false reset before the actual reset and they both felt almost exactly the same. If you shoot the M&P exclusively, you can train out any deficiencies there. Otherwise, it’s an easy trigger mechanism to short stroke and that’s silly and frustrating. It’s not a dealbreaker for me, but I’m definitely not a fan.
Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy
Reply With Quote