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Thread: Honest review of ECQC, Couer d'Alene ID

  1. #21
    I’ve had a ton of discussions with Chuck Haggard about the idea that carrying a revolver AIWB, a snub in the weak side pocket, and a small fixed blade carried centerline would solve 99.5% of the plausible things a private citizen would face, including the ECQC range fight. It’s a valid concept, and as soon as my M66 comes back from Robar, I may very well run it myself as EDC as well as through some upcoming training classes. I like snubs a lot in a specific role. I just don’t like relying on it’s attric to bail me out.
    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

  2. #22
    Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    Guys, I’m not downplaying a snub because of personal belief. I’m downplaying it because of over 15 years of working the problem and seeing a lot of results. Can the snub work well? Sure, without a doubt. But looking at one or two evos and thinking it is an answer is not a good base of study.

    If you choose to run a snub, awesome. That’s great and I encourage it. Just don’t fool yourself that it will work the way you expect every time.
    Thanks Cecil. As always, I appreciate the depth of experience that you and other SME's bring to the forum.

  3. #23
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    @Cecil Burch, Copy; I hear you loud and clear. In no way do I want you or anyone else to think that I am not digesting—and reflecting on—everything you have to say on this.


    Folks, to be clear, there isn’t a practical combatives guy out there that I respect more than Cecil, and I’ve taken more than a few seminars from names most here would know. On point: Cecil’s two excellent combatives blocks at PeP3 began my own BJJ journey.

    I think we may actually be saying the same thing (snubs offer minimal advantages in very specific intances that are offset by skill) just coming at it from two opposite ends of the experience/skill continuum. I’m offering up how it was for me on that day from my end (little experience) while at the same time absorbing everything Cecil says from his end (vast experience) and entering his comments and thoughts onto my personal list of goals for the future.

    If push comes to shove, I’m going to defer to Cecil on all of this precisely because of the extensive time he’s put in studying these concepts. Again, just to be clear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    But I’m seeing some “this will cover up some issues” type thinking and I can tell you unequivocally that is the wrong attitude to take.
    Also loud and clear. My attitude is to follow all of you shivworks guys and work harder on more robust delivery system skills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Burch View Post
    I like snubs a lot in a specific role. I just don’t like relying on it’s attric to bail me out.
    And, finally, also loud and clear. To be clear.
    Last edited by Totem Polar; 07-04-2018 at 02:55 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Sidheshooter View Post
    @Cecil Burch
    Folks, to be clear, there isn’t a practical combatives guy out there that I respect more than Cecil, and I’ve taken more than a few seminars from names most here would know. On point: Cecil’s two excellent combatives blocks at PeP3 began my own BJJ journey.

    Thanks for the kind words dude. To this day, those blocks at PeP3 were some of the most fun I ever had teaching. Great group of students, and the freedom to teach something a bit more "down the rabbit hole".

    I think we may actually be saying the same thing (snubs offer minimal advantages in very specific intances that are offset by skill) just coming at it from two opposite ends of the experience/skill continuum. I’m offering up how it was for me on that day from my end (little experience) while at the same time absorbing everything Cecil says from his end (vast experience) and entering his comments and thoughts onto my personal list of goals for the future.

    Absolutely I think we are saying the same things. I just got the feeling that there was a bit of underlying "hardware to solve problems" mentality starting to form and I just wanted to stop it early. We hammered out this very issue on TPI around 2007 or '08 I think, and I did not want to see the same waste of time/effort here since we have had a ton of time even after that to reinforce concepts.

    And let me be really clear - I am in NO WAY diminishing your own personal experiences in ECQC. You did the work and you deserve the pat on the back. Your conclusions are supported by what you went through. I only wanted to point out that the entangled fight is the most chaotic, unpredictable, and hardest part of combat and what may happen in a couple of evos may not represent the entirety of the paradigm. It is easy to start thinking "this worked for me over those three days, therefore it is THE thing". God knows I have taken that tack a few times both in ECQC and in straight BJJ, and I have paid the price. That was my only concern. As I said, I run a snub often, and know that there are certain attributes that are good, as well as certain attributes that are not so good, and so I will like to be able to use the positives but without basing my entire plan of survival on said attributes.

    Again, this is just some thoughts from someone who has seen/done/ taught this a lot. It is in no way the end all, be all, unquestioning authority of this area. Even Craig (who actually IS the authority) would say that even he does not know everything. But we do know trends
    Last edited by Cecil Burch; 07-05-2018 at 11:49 AM.
    For info about training or to contact me:
    Immediate Action Combatives

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