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Thread: Amateur Radio

  1. #111
    New Member schüler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DacoRoman View Post
    I'm learning as we go here, and I've just found out that there are no DMR repeaters in North Az. In fact, I can't find any digital repeaters period, so no Fusion or D-Star either. So especially for my first radio, any digital capability would seem totally superfluous, please correct me if I'm wrong.
    Analog gets noisy (EMI) and faint as it gets to the edge of simplex operating range. Not always easy to discern what someone is saying.

    If you were still getting a pair of HTs... DMR simplex offers crystal clear audible communication over your full reception range. Also, the only persons to hear you must be operating in the same DMR mode capability.* Some of the DMR radios feature remote stun/kill function w/verification.

    *Analog radios, if so equipped, can have a semblance of privacy with speech inversion modes. The better implementations of inversion will festure more than one inversion pattern, even if it is a minor tweak between options.

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR1572 View Post
    The battery life on the FT70 isn’t as bad as everyone makes it out to be. I have a drop in charger, spare battery and car charger so I always have lots of juice. The battery light comes on prematurely.

    I use the openspot to access Fusion and DMR repeaters because I cannot hit any of the local Fusion repeaters from my house.

    I have a small magnet mount antenna on my vehicle and it helps out a good bit.

    When I’m at work in the NOLA area we have a bunch of repeaters that I get on all the time. Up at my house I’m limited because I’m far away from the local repeaters and the HOA is very strict with all the Karen’s in the neighborhood minded everyone else’s business.
    Good to know the battery life isn’t a big issue for you.

    Can you do Fusion and DMR with the FT70?! I thought it was just Yaesu Fusion.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    Analog gets noisy (EMI) and faint as it gets to the edge of simplex operating range. Not always easy to discern what someone is saying.

    If you were still getting a pair of HTs... DMR simplex offers crystal clear audible communication over your full reception range. Also, the only persons to hear you must be operating in the same DMR mode capability.* Some of the DMR radios feature remote stun/kill function w/verification.

    *Analog radios, if so equipped, can have a semblance of privacy with speech inversion modes. The better implementations of inversion will festure more than one inversion pattern, even if it is a minor tweak between options.
    Ahh, I didn’t realize that DMR capable radios will do digital talkie to talkie simplex communication.

    Do Yaesu digital radios do digital simplex with each other as well?

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DacoRoman View Post
    Good to know the battery life isn’t a big issue for you.

    Can you do Fusion and DMR with the FT70?! I thought it was just Yaesu Fusion.
    The radio is just Fusion, but the software on the Shark Openspot allows cross mode operation. I have an openspot 1 which is no longer made. The openspot 3 is the newest model and I believe it allows cross mode capability across all digital platforms.

  5. #115
    New Member schüler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DacoRoman View Post
    Ahh, I didn’t realize that DMR capable radios will do digital talkie to talkie simplex communication.

    Do Yaesu digital radios do digital simplex with each other as well?
    Yes, DMR is a protocol that can be simplex, duplex, repeated, trunked, etc. Radio range is same as analog but with clear/"full quieting" throughout the entire reception range.

    DMR is also "quiet" in that there is no squelch broken unless it receives the designed DMR protocol. It is like infinite tone squelch. Also, DMR radios often have a programmable feature that prevents simultaneous talking if more than one person attemots to transmit at the same time (it eliminates "doubling").

    Conversely, with digital squelch there is no way to listen to the noise floor for weak signals like you can with analog.

    That said, someone at the extreme end of DMR reception range may hear digital noise when there's enough signal strength but not enough signal integrity to provide intact data stream.

    A radio with both analog/digital capability may give up some weak signal performance on analog/digital ranges. Yet if you can really use or appreciate the quieting... man, a radio with both modes it's the best of both worlds.

    Even our police car and side P25 radios had an 800MHz analog simplex channel in case the Wizard Of Oz public safety radio system was down. Until I saw it in our new programming channels list no one even knew we had it. It came in handy for team comm in underground tunnels or rural coversge holes. Yelling is pretty limited range.

    Now, for the individual user application: Digital simplex is only a win when two or more people *regularly* use the radio in a short range geographical location. Farm, crowd management, small jobsite/plant or any other regular team comm need.

    Given the multiple modes of digital (Dstar, P25, Trbo, C4FM, etc) and the unlikelihood of meeting a random stranger with the same protocol, and in absence of any repeater, it's a question of your own affordability OR or team future-proofing if 1) if your group is likely to grow at some point in the future and they plan to budget for it or 2) you are willing to invest in multiple radios yourself so everyone can communicate well in the future. Because sometimes you are preparing for others...

    As an aside, I am a huge fan of Comet, Diamond or Nagoya brand 15" or so aftermarket antennas for HTs. Obvious signal improvement. Pay close attention to the antenna connector gender - brands and even models sometimes use the opposite gender antenna connectors, e.g. SMA male vs SMA female.

  6. #116
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    Do any of you do any amateur satellite work? I'm considering purchasing an Arrow handheld satellite antenna to go with my VX-7r HT.

    I'm getting kind of "meh" about HF SSB. I'm not really a rag chewer and HF ops in my immediate location is challenging due to the home density and construction.

    Chris

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by schüler View Post
    Yes, DMR is a protocol that can be simplex, duplex, repeated, trunked, etc. Radio range is same as analog but with clear/"full quieting" throughout the entire reception range.

    DMR is also "quiet" in that there is no squelch broken unless it receives the designed DMR protocol. It is like infinite tone squelch. Also, DMR radios often have a programmable feature that prevents simultaneous talking if more than one person attemots to transmit at the same time (it eliminates "doubling").

    Conversely, with digital squelch there is no way to listen to the noise floor for weak signals like you can with analog.

    That said, someone at the extreme end of DMR reception range may hear digital noise when there's enough signal strength but not enough signal integrity to provide intact data stream.

    A radio with both analog/digital capability may give up some weak signal performance on analog/digital ranges. Yet if you can really use or appreciate the quieting... man, a radio with both modes it's the best of both worlds.

    Even our police car and side P25 radios had an 800MHz analog simplex channel in case the Wizard Of Oz public safety radio system was down. Until I saw it in our new programming channels list no one even knew we had it. It came in handy for team comm in underground tunnels or rural coversge holes. Yelling is pretty limited range.

    Now, for the individual user application: Digital simplex is only a win when two or more people *regularly* use the radio in a short range geographical location. Farm, crowd management, small jobsite/plant or any other regular team comm need.

    Given the multiple modes of digital (Dstar, P25, Trbo, C4FM, etc) and the unlikelihood of meeting a random stranger with the same protocol, and in absence of any repeater, it's a question of your own affordability OR or team future-proofing if 1) if your group is likely to grow at some point in the future and they plan to budget for it or 2) you are willing to invest in multiple radios yourself so everyone can communicate well in the future. Because sometimes you are preparing for others...

    As an aside, I am a huge fan of Comet, Diamond or Nagoya brand 15" or so aftermarket antennas for HTs. Obvious signal improvement. Pay close attention to the antenna connector gender - brands and even models sometimes use the opposite gender antenna connectors, e.g. SMA male vs SMA female.

    Many thanks for your very detailed and most excellent answer. Gives me a lot to think about. I have to say now I want that Anytone 878 since it is dual band/analog/DMR. But it's about $60 bucks outside my budget per radio meaning that I would not be able to get two, like I would with an FT60R, or even FT70. Also, possibly the worst part is that with the Anytone I need to get a virtual PC on my Mac so I can program it, I've found out..which also means getting a Windows 10 license. With the Yaesu's I can get Mac programming software easily.

    ...So at this point I'm thinking 2 FT60R's for old school analog only (with longer battery life and the availability of AA battery adapter pack), or possibly 2 FT70s (supposed shorter battery life be damned) to also have digital capability....or shucks... one Anytone 878, and bite the bullet and get Virtual PC with a Windows 10 license, since it would be nice to be able to run the odd Windows software that comes along...decisions decisions!

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtnbkr View Post
    Do any of you do any amateur satellite work? I'm considering purchasing an Arrow handheld satellite antenna to go with my VX-7r HT.

    I'm getting kind of "meh" about HF SSB. I'm not really a rag chewer and HF ops in my immediate location is challenging due to the home density and construction.

    Chris
    Can you disabuse a clueless ham radio wannabe of his ignorance, and tell me what amateur satellite work is please?

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by DacoRoman View Post
    Can you disabuse a clueless ham radio wannabe of his ignorance, and tell me what amateur satellite work is please?
    Using the amateur-radio-dedicated satellites in orbit as repeaters. There are others available for other tasks, but most hams tend to target the repeater variants.

    You can also talk to the ISS from time to time.

    A dual-band HT or two HTs is all that's necessary. You can go full retard with special gear, but it's not required.

    www.amsat.org.

    Chris

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by DacoRoman View Post
    Can you disabuse a clueless ham radio wannabe of his ignorance, and tell me what amateur satellite work is please?
    I couldn't edit my post, so I am quoting a 2nd time to add a couple videos.
    Low-cost-of-entry method: https (standard HT and rubber duck antenna): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGotH56scFI
    Slightly more expensive method (purpose designed Arrow antenna with mobile rig, but can be used with an HT): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Ukh_nT2Tg

    The Arrow antenna runs about $150 but makes things a lot easier (even if you look a bit dorky).

    Chris

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