The USAF won’t be receiving the M17 pistol

[psalms144.1]

OK, I'll try to be clearer. All the important decision makers in the Air Force are pilots. Pilots do NOT use rifles. Most flight crew do NOT use rifles. Therefore, the only individual weapon the majority of the senior leadership have any exposure to or care about is the pistol. Further therefore, USAF senior leadership give more of a collective shit about pistols that, say, Army senior leadership.

[HCM]

OK, I'll try to be clearer. All the important decision makers in the Air Force are pilots. Pilots do NOT use rifles. Most flight crew do NOT use rifles. Therefore, the only individual weapon the majority of the senior leadership have any exposure to or care about is the pistol. Further therefore, USAF senior leadership give more of a collective shit about pistols that, say, Army senior leadership.

Two biggest groups of gun toters in USAF are Air crew (pistols) and security forces (pistols as primary CONUS) - makes sense.

[Bigghoss]

I have two questions:

1. The safety on the M17/M18, is it large enough to ride it with your thumb like a 1911?

I work for the Department of the Army as a civilian security guard and the rumor is we'll be getting M17s next year. When the Army first adopeted the M17 I didn't think we ever see them (We we're still carrying M16A2s then) but recently we've been getting lots of new equipment and the two sources I heard about the switch aren't unreliable. I still won't believe it until I see it but it seems more likely now than it would have a year ago.

2. What we're their complaints with the M11? Are they just at the end of their service life or do they have an issue with them?

[psalms144.1]

The M11s are old. The one that I turned in in 2008 was darned near 20 years old, so I'd bet a good number of the M11s in the Air Force are older than most of the folks carrying them.

Repair parts are hard to come by, and, the folded steel slides are NOT maintenance friendly.

That plus the M11 is larger, heavier, and has less capacity than say, a G19, and it's not a "fan favorite" anymore.

[HCM]

The M11s are old. The one that I turned in in 2008 was darned near 20 years old, so I'd bet a good number of the M11s in the Air Force are older than most of the folks carrying them.

Repair parts are hard to come by, and, the folded steel slides are NOT maintenance friendly.

That plus the M11 is larger, heavier, and has less capacity than say, a G19, and it's not a "fan favorite" anymore.

Per the AFOSI guys I’ve worked with - they can choose from a variety of 9mm POW conus but the M11 is mandatory overseas both in .MIL and diplomatic assignments. Some might have Agency issued P229 9mms in lieu of the actual M11. Glocks and P320s are popular POWs.

[03RN]

I have two questions:

1. The safety on the M17/M18, is it large enough to ride it with your thumb like a 1911?

I work for the Department of the Army as a civilian security guard and the rumor is we'll be getting M17s next year. When the Army first adopeted the M17 I didn't think we ever see them (We we're still carrying M16A2s then) but recently we've been getting lots of new equipment and the two sources I heard about the switch aren't unreliable. I still won't believe it until I see it but it seems more likely now than it would have a year ago.

2. What we're their complaints with the M11? Are they just at the end of their service life or do they have an issue with them?

I'm not much of a fan of the 320 but the safety is actually really well designed and a very good thumb shelf. I wish it could be the standard. I would say it's the best, non 1911 safety.

[ST911]

2015- http://www.osi.af.mil/News/Article-D...viable-option/

QUANTICO, Va. -- Driven by real world needs, agents assigned to the Air Force Office of Special Investigations are now permitted to carry an approved privately owned weapon and ammunition on duty.

The change brings OSI investigators in line with their counterparts at many federal, state and local law enforcement agencies which allow their investigators to carry a POW on duty.

"I'm excited to announce yet another significant milestone for OSI's weapons program," wrote Brig. Gen. Keith M. Givens, OSI Commander, in his email to the command Nov. 16, following the Secretary of the Air Force signing a memorandum the previous week authorizing OSI Special Agents to carry POWs and ammo while performing official duties in the U.S., its territories and possessions.

Haven't seen an M11 or M9 on an MCIO agent in awhile. gen4 and gen5 G19s most frequently, and a single S&W Shield.

[Bigghoss]

I'm not much of a fan of the 320 but the safety is actually really well designed and a very good thumb shelf. I wish it could be the standard. I would say it's the best, non 1911 safety.

Well that's good to hear. As much as I hate to give Sig any of my money I'll have to grab a commercial M17 when it comes out and hopefully I can find something close enough for personal use like an M&P 2.0 with thumb safety. Or a DW Specialist 9mm

[jetfire]

I have two questions:

1. The safety on the M17/M18, is it large enough to ride it with your thumb like a 1911?

I work for the Department of the Army as a civilian security guard and the rumor is we'll be getting M17s next year. When the Army first adopeted the M17 I didn't think we ever see them (We we're still carrying M16A2s then) but recently we've been getting lots of new equipment and the two sources I heard about the switch aren't unreliable. I still won't believe it until I see it but it seems more likely now than it would have a year ago.

2. What we're their complaints with the M11? Are they just at the end of their service life or do they have an issue with them?

1. Yes, it really is well designed. As thumb safeties go, I like it quite a lot.

2. The M11s in service right now are a million years old and are not maintenance friendly like an M9, so they’re starting to die at kind of a rapid rate. Last time we ran an AFOSI agent through the BAT course he was getting mad light primer strikes in DA and SA; using the same lot of ammo that my rattly old M9 would run just fine.

RE: some of the comments upthread about the AF’s small arms programs, which are very progressive when compared to the other services. We owe most of that to the fact that Curtis LeMay wanted to beat the Army at Camp Perry, so he created the Small Arms Maintenance/Training Units, which eventually became Combat Arms Instructors. The Air Force is the only branche of the service where “firearms instructor” is a full time primary MOS, or AFSC as we call them. That’s pretty tight.

Our pistol qual course honestly isn’t bad - it’s easy to pass, but fairly challenging for the average shooter to get Expert on. I finally shot a perfect score on it this year, which I was relatively happy about.

Security Forces carry rifles as their primary CONUS due to current FPCON, this however is subject to the installation commander’s discretion if he wants to go pistols only.

Pilots and rifles: we just brought the Aircrew Self Defense Weapon online, which is an 11-inch breakdown AR that fits under a pilot’s ejection seat. Most cargo pilots still just carry the M9, but in flights in naughty places they will usually have some FAST or Raven dudes on board.

[JTQ]

We owe most of that to the fact that Curtis LeMay ...

Probably the guy that drove everybody to get an AR15/M16/M4/etc.