The USAF won’t be receiving the M17 pistol

[crossrifles]

Read on to the other posts. If you had of before grabbing your pitchfork and lighting your torch you’d of seen where I clarified that statement.

Keep in mind that handguns are the lowest common denominator in the military when it comes to firearms. Then compare across the services.

Again, I'm not grabbing a pitchfork - you stated...
"The USAF was and continues to be the ONLY service that teaches rank and file members to draw from a holster and perform reloads 'on the clock.' No other service teaches that outside of their own version of spec ops, to the best of my knowledge.

My comment was comparing service to service training, not proficiency compared to those of us that enjoy shooting and training."

Although I left the Marine Corps in 2003, ten years later they changed to a what they call a Combat Pistol Program. You clearly stated you were comparing service to service training to the best of your knowledge, which was incorrect.

Thanks for the clarification though.

[TOTS]

The USAF was and continues to be the ONLY service that teaches rank and file members to draw from a holster and perform reloads 'on the clock.' No other service teaches that outside of their own version of spec ops, to the best of my knowledge.

My comment was comparing service to service training, not proficiency compared to those of us that enjoy shooting and training.

Respectfully, That’s incorrect. The USMC has every Marine issued a pistol qualify annually on the Combat Pistol Program course of fire. Every distance and course of fire is both timed and from our holster. (Admittedly a Serpa) And going from memory, more than half of the strings of fire involve either a slide-lock or tactical reload; all under a par time. Most ranges have rotating targets that self-hide at the time limit. Also included are failure to stop drills and human likeness targets. First shot is always DA and pistol always starts and ends cond one.

And this is the basic level annual qual course that pilots and administrative types go through. Table two and higher levels get even more “serious”.

Now that you mention it; I’m coming up on a requal date!

[Moshjath]

Army pistol training has come a long way. Check out the recently published TC 3-32.35.

When outside the wire, We always carried our M9s on “red”. Note the TC’s definition of Red:



If anyone wants to see more about current US Army pistol training, it’s a good read: https://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/DR_p...INAL%20WEB.pdf

[RJflyer]

Here's the current USAF M9 qualification course of fire, per AFMAN36-2655 (dated 2016). Apparently the strings of fire are timed, which I never realized. I've never seen someone fail to get the required rounds off in time.

[Gadfly]

^^^ AFQC... “Weaver Stance”. So modern and cutting edge.[emoji849]


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[Trigger]

Wow- I never saw a revolver while flying, and you and I are of the same era.

Or was it a BUG?

Yep, when I was at Hill in 95. We transitioned to the M9 later that year.

[03RN]

The USAF was and continues to be the ONLY service that teaches rank and file members to draw from a holster and perform reloads 'on the clock.' No other service teaches that outside of their own version of spec ops, to the best of my knowledge.

My comment was comparing service to service training, not proficiency compared to those of us that enjoy shooting and training.

The Marine Corps Security Force pistol qual was a little more involved than a static qual, even back in 03. There was actually a great course of fire with a ton of steel too.

Security Forces is hardly special forces.

[Wheeler]

The Marine Corps Security Force pistol qual was a little more involved than a static qual, even back in 03. There was actually a great course of fire with a ton of steel too.

Security Forces is hardly special forces.

Never said the two were the same.

[03RN]

Never said the two were the same.

"No other service teaches that outside of their own version of spec ops, to the best of my knowledge."

You did, so I was just clarifying

[jetfire]

^^^ AFQC... “Weaver Stance”. So modern and cutting edge.[emoji849]


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The book mandated “weaver stance” is going away when they roll out the new pistol program sometime next year. To be fair, when I teach M9 classes, my section on the Weaver stance goes like this: “The book says I have to teach you Weaver stance, so pretend that I did just now, and instead I’m going to use that time to show you how everyone who’s actually good at shooting stands.”

Re: timed quals, I’ve had a couple of people fail to get the required rounds off in time, but they were fucked up like a football bat anyway and decided that they didn’t want to listen. The par times on the AFQC are so fuckin’ long, I’ve passed with an expert score shooting it with 50% reductions from a duty holster.