The USAF won’t be receiving the M17 pistol

[Wheeler]

"No other service teaches that outside of their own version of spec ops, to the best of my knowledge."

You did, so I was just clarifying

No. I did not. You're projecting. I don't consider USAF Security types as Special Forces. PJ's EFTAC's and CC's are a wee bit different. It's ok to be all oorah and stuff, just do it over there with all your oorah buddies.

[03RN]

No. I did not. You're projecting. I don't consider USAF Security types as Special Forces. PJ's EFTAC's and CC's are a wee bit different. It's ok to be all oorah and stuff, just do it over there with all your oorah buddies.

I don't know what the communication disfunction is but I clearly stated that the USMC Security Force is not special ops and yet they teach what you say is only taught in non Air Force special forces.

[Wheeler]

I don't know what the communication disfunction is but I clearly stated that the USMC Security Force is not special ops and yet they teach what you say is only taught in non Air Force special forces.

At a guess we’re talking past each other.

[jetfire]

I don't know what the communication disfunction is but I clearly stated that the USMC Security Force is not special ops and yet they teach what you say is only taught in non Air Force special forces.

The problem is you both keep saying “Security Forces” but one of you is talking about USAF SF and the other one is talking about USMC Security Forces, and they’re definitely not the same thing, but the confusion it’s creating is making me enjoy this thread.

[TGS]

I'll just add to this trash fire and add that USMC MSGs shoot a federal LE qual which is shot from the holster with concealment.

[Jeep]

Before anyone cracks jokes about Finance being desk jockeys who don’t need small arms anyway, note at the time on-post suicide attacks were a common tactic of the opposition. Hopefully that was covered in the “Cultural Senstivity” briefing......

Well, in the Army the Finance Corps are desk jockeys, but back in the day at least, they often carried pistols because they often were carrying large amounts of payroll and mess hall cash. Whether they ever actually qualified with those .45's is a different matter, of course, and they also had to deal with the typical stupidity--5 rounds only, and magazine usually required to be in the front pocket, not in the pistol.

[jetfire]

Well, in the Army the Finance Corps are desk jockeys, but back in the day at least, they often carried pistols because they often were carrying large amounts of payroll and mess hall cash. Whether they ever actually qualified with those .45's is a different matter, of course, and they also had to deal with the typical stupidity--5 rounds only, and magazine usually required to be in the front pocket, not in the pistol.

I speak from deep personal experience when I say that AF finance is literally the worst.

I’m still waiting on my travel voucher to get paid from April...

[ranger]

I speak from deep personal experience when I say that AF finance is literally the worst.

I’m still waiting on my travel voucher to get paid from April...

If this was Army finance I would be asking April what year

[Jeep]

I speak from deep personal experience when I say that AF finance is literally the worst.

I’m still waiting on my travel voucher to get paid from April...

Nah. It isn't even close. Army Finance is the clear winner.

When General Pete Schoomaker, who had been CG of Special Operations Command, "unretired" and came back on active duty in 2003 to become Army Chief of Staff, the Finance Corps needed to take him off pension and put him back on regular pay. They managed to cancel his pension payments immediately, but weren't able to get him paid for something like another two years.

Any finance organization worth its salt can drag out normal travel vouchers for 60-90-120 days. Organizations that try really, really hard can make the process last 180 days-one year.

But think about the awesomeness of a Finance Corps that doesn't pay the head honcho of an entire military branch anything for two years? Now that goes beyond any normal superlative. Think about it. If the finance people at a Fortune 500 company was a day late in paying the CEO, you can bet that heads would roll. But the US Army finance team managed to not pay the head of the entire Army for almost two years! Indeed, if I remember the story right he had to borrow money to pay his bills because the Finance Corps simply couldn't figure out how to program its computers to pay him.

Now, I'm sure AF Finance is exceptional in its inability to perform its functions, and has clearly reached professional levels and are no longer just gifted amateurs.

But no one--no one--can top the Army Finance Corps!

[AJD21]

Thats why they never negotiate with terrorists in the movies....they know they could never make the payment in time even if they did offer to pay.