A Question before buying

[HCM]

I saw the price on the SD9VE for $260. Then add the Apex enhancementfor $55. . Shockingly low. Almost feels like I would be considering a Saturday Night Special. Talk about that for me.

In general buy once, cry once when it comes to guns. Get a Glock.

If a Glock is simply not feasible, the SD9VE is the best deal going for a budget handgun. I would buy one over a Canik in a heart beat.

The SD9VE is a solid and safe pistol though very unrefined. It comes with plastic sight but accepts M&P sights.

[frozentundra]

I've recently been turned on to the Canik TP9SF sold at Academy Sports, and introduced to me by one of it's a salesman who I recently taught in a college class.

I've done a good bit of reading and comparison shopping since, and like what I have seen. Price is very good, and reviews by owners and reviewers are impressive. I read someplace that it won Gun of the Year from some organization.

A couple of days ago I was able to shoot a Century Canik TP9SA. It operated well. My only mechanical issue was what I felt was a very long trigger pull, though not a hard one.

So my only complaint involves target shooting at the range. I want the reader here to assume that I am a very good shot.
That said, I found that all my shots were going about 4" low at 7 yards. But left to right was perfect. Inspecting the sights, I found that I can adjust left-right, but not elevation, which is were my issue is. Neither the front nor the rear sight had an elevation adjustment.

I wonder if the front sight is like my little Walther P22 pistol. On that one, the owner installs one of four sights up front. Each of three had its white dots at different heights above the barrel. The fourth one was just a flat cover to fill the sight mounting hole.

Is this the way elevation is accomplished on the TP9? If so all models of the TP9 handled this way, or do some models have rear sights that are adjustable for elevation?

Thanks ahead of time for you replies.

Joe

Here is a link to a TP9-SF that Bud's gun shop is advertising as having Warren Tactical sights, which are a good choice for competition sights. $377 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...hts+Desert+Tan

I wonder if that means the dovetail is standard? Or do they all come with Warren sights?

Here is the same gun with Warren sights from academy. $419 https://www.academy.com/shop/pdp/can...-warren-sights

If you were hitting a full 4" low at 7 yards, that is a pretty crazy amount to try to make up for with a sight change. 4" at 25 yards would be a different story. Were you aiming with the dot or with the top edge of the front sight? Also, were you shooting the rounds into a small 1" or 2" ragged hole that was 4" low? Or was it a group that was as big or bigger than your hand? If you weren't shooting very, very tight 4" low groups, then I wouldn't assume the sights were necessarily that far off. At least that's how I reckon those things for myself.

Personally, I would spend less than $50 more to buy a S&W M&P 2.0 9mm. These guns have a lifetime warranty through Smith and Wesson. They are a very known commodity, extremely common among the competition crowds, and have an almost unlimited support by the industry regarding aftermarket parts, accessories, and gear. This includes just about any sights that exist. You would have future options to tailor it specifically to any type of competition shooting event you can imagine. Who knows how long Canik will make and support that model pistol you are looking at? The M&P would be a solid lifelong investment. That is one of the reasons why it's so prevalent among competitors and Law Enforcement agencies nationwide.

This is coming from a guy who carries a Glock 19 every day. If I was in your position, I'd buy a S&W.

If you shop around you can find very good deals on a M&P 2.0 9mm.

https://www.deguns.net/Smith-Wesson-...79-p/11521.htm $449
https://gunprime.com/product/smith-w...ack-nms-11521/ $385
https://www.smga.com/p-123889.aspx?s...20-blk-425-9mm $399
https://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...fc00fd0a240614 $399

I hope whatever you choose works well for you!

[RevolverRob]

I have one holster type, one magazine type, one bullet type, and Glock parts and accessories are sold at my local Seven-11 (kidding).

Dude, you live in Florida. It wouldn't surprise me if they sold parts and accessories at 7-11 there. They basically do here in Chicago (for gang members, not for the general public, of course).

Buy Once - Cry Once.

I suggest TWO Cajunized CZ SP01s OR two Langdonized Beretta 92Gs. A dozen spare magazines with weighted baseplates. Acquire a properly fitted kydex holster, four magazine pouches, a competition belt, and five cases of Federal Syntech (150-grain) and two cases of Federal HST (147-grain). Also, Ben Stoeger's Dry Fire book and target set. And a JMCK George AIWB holster and proper gun belt. Then head down the road and grab a class with one of the Miculeks, in no time you'll be a Grand Master.

Total will run you about 5,000 bucks a small bar to entry for premier equipment and performance.

...For those thinking I'm being serious - (I'm not)...

___

A lot depends on your budget. I personally, like the Glock or M&P 2.0 idea. Two-four spare magazines, a holster of some type (Comp-Tac and Blade Tech each make inexpensive plastic holsters that will work), a decent belt (Wilderness Tactical two-ring).

And as much 9mm ammo as you can afford (Federal AE9 or Speer Lawman in 124 or 147-grain) and Federal HST in 124 or 147-grain weight would be the defensive ammo - SGAmmo.com has flavors of them in stock.

For years I've been trying to find "the way" to the lowest bar of entry into defensive/competitive shooting in a reliable platform. Because the SD9VE really could benefit from better sights stock and a better trigger pull, it becomes a more expensive option (+75-100 for sights, +50 in apex parts). My favorite is the Kahr CW9, because it has great stock sights and a good trigger, but magazines are expensive ($40+/each) and it only comes with a single magazine so you're already +40 over the initial price to get close to the stock SD9VE.

I guess what I'm saying is - the barrier for entry into the handgun market is approximately $500 for a quality centerfire handgun that can go box to match - without any major concerns. It may be that Canik has dropped this marginally to the $450-range, but it's basically right at that amount.

[frozentundra]

I should add that if you have any interest in concealed carry of a defensive firearm, then you should take a hard look at the M&P 2.0 compact and the Glock 19 sized guns. I would certainly never try to talk anybody out of buying a 9mm Glock, but you had indicated that price was a primary concern.

And I would also like to echo the suggestions of the SD9VE as easily the best choice at the very bottom end of the price bracket. I picked one up a while back because of the low price and solid reputation, and I was interested in it as an experiment. It has a little shorter trigger reach than my Glock, which I find to be wonderful. I've put over 1000 rounds through it, and it has functioned with 100% reliability so far. I documented my experience with it in this thread https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....nd-test-thread , as have some of the other forum members. It's an unbelievably good gun for the money. However, if you are primarily interested in competition vs defensive application, the M&P 2.0 9mm fullsize is perfectly suited to that purpose, and it's relatively inexpensive as well.

[JTQ]

..., a decent belt (Wilderness Tactical two-ring).

Father's Day sale right now, get's you a free five-stitch upgrade on the Frequent Flyer belt. http://www.thewilderness.com/belts/frequent-flyer-belt/

For the OP, if you are belt shopping, whatever you choose, the 1.5" belt is the most versatile width as most holster loops default to 1.5".

[BN]

I think it was Todd who said: There's a reason why uncommon guns are uncommon.

[Mudbug]

"Where or how do I join the GSSF? Sounds like a wonderful option, no matter when I want to buy a gun in the future."

There's a good bit of information on the GSSF website. Here's where you can find the form to join.

http://www.gssfonline.com/registration.cfm

Thanks, T Smith. I did check the website, and learned what it's all about. I'm giving that serious consideration.

I live in a small town that has two gunshops. One is called "Tri-Parish (Louisiana) Police Supplies", and the other used to sell audio equipment only, and expanded to a pretty nice gun shop as well (the two shops are side-by-side, not in the same establishment).

The Police supply store is the bigger and more popular of the two. I dropped by there and asked the owner about the GSSF. He was all over it. He thought it was a very strong program and was full of info. He told me that you get TWO purchases a year, rather than one. And he says that I can order on the same day that I join. So that's wonderful. All I have to do is stop by his shop and he will order the gun for me and help me with the membership paperwork. Now it's a matter of selecting my gun choice, and see if the membership cost vs the sale price of the gun is worth it. Being a Glock I am sure it is.

The bad part of my town is that there are no gun shops with ranges locally, and no one that rents guns that can be tried before making any decisions. What you buy is what you get. So my option is to hang around the coffee shop in the early morning with the other old Geezers, and arrange to swap guns at the range when you find one you want to try. Usually, someone that someone knows has your gun interest and can be borrowed. I have tried several that way, including the Canik TP9SF that I origionally started this thread with.

[Mudbug]

Here is a link to a TP9-SF that Bud's gun shop is advertising as having Warren Tactical sights, which are a good choice for competition sights. $377 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...hts+Desert+Tan

If you were hitting a full 4" low at 7 yards, that is a pretty crazy amount to try to make up for with a sight change. 4" at 25 yards would be a different story. Were you aiming with the dot or with the top edge of the front sight? Also, were you shooting the rounds into a small 1" or 2" ragged hole that was 4" low? Or was it a group that was as big or bigger than your hand? If you weren't shooting very, very tight 4" low groups, then I wouldn't assume the sights were necessarily that far off. At least that's how I reckon those things for myself.

Thanks FROZEN TUNDRA,
I understand and agree with all in your reply, so I'll just answer your question about the pattern being 4" low at 7 yards.
I want you to accept that I am a very good shot with a gun that I am familiar with. With my SW22 VICTORY, I usually put all ten magazine rounds inside of about 2" on a 3" target. Most are within an inch or a little more.

On the other hand, I am not so good with my Charter Arms Snubnose .38 Special (the 'GATOR', which I love!) . But then, who is, with a gun that has a 2" barrel?

Now, I will admit that I was not familiar with my friend's CANIK. So that accounts for some of it. The owner sent the gun to me through a mutual friend with the 18 round clip already loaded, but no other bullets. So that's all that I had to try it with. The first five shots of the 18 round magazine were the described 4" low below bullseye on the target
The were probably grouped to about 2-1/2 inches. Then I began raising my aim until I started hitting around the bullseye circle. So I had a very strait trail of bullets, centered left to right, tracing up to the center point. By 16th through 18th shot, I was doing pretty good. But I was aiming a solid 4" higher.

Could it have been my inability to compensate for the muzzle rise of the gun correctly? Maybe, but I feel that I am experienced enough to do a decent job of correcting for that. But no one is perfect, so it's possible.

I think that I am going to ask to borrow his gun one more time, and bring out a box of quality cartridges with me so that I can do some better control shooting.

However, the more I read and listen to you folks, the more I am prone to purchase a well known and supported brand of firearm. Several have been mentioned here. I also know that Walther has a lifetime warranty of all of their guns, and their customer phone service is wonderful, as I have used it a couple of times with my little Walther P22.

[Mudbug]

The SD9VE is a Glock knock-off. I say that positively....Glocks are great, and these are great. The triggers are heavy, ~8 lbs or so. This is fine for a defensive pistol, but if you're going to compete with it, you'll want the Apex trigger kit.

These work like a Glock. I mean the WORK like a Glock. Very reliable, and the manual of arms is the same. The big difference is the finish, and polymer frame feels a little cheaper. I have no doubt that the polymer frame will outlast you, so it's not a functional issue. But if you compared side to side, that's where you'll see the difference.

I like the fact that the SD9VE holds 16 rounds instead of 15 for the G19.5. Not that I care about the extra round, but the grip's just that tad bit longer, and it makes a big difference for me. I find the G19 grip a bit short for my hands, which makes it less comfortable.

I think the SD9VE rear sight is plastic, but the front is metal. The rear sight plastic is much stouter than the Glock sights, which are a joke. The Glock sights are very usable, but will not hold up to serious use.

The SD9VE is a very good pistol. If you get it and shoot it for a couple years, you'll definitely know what you'll want next, if anything. At that point, keep it as a back up or dedicated carry gun, and get a different pistol. Or sell it for $200 and roll that into a new pistol. Either way, you can't lose.

As Rich mentioned, the same is true with Glock. You can't lose if you get one. If you get fancier pistol, there's a reasonable chance that you won't make the right decision, simply because you're too new to defensive/duty pistols.

John C
This is the first review I have been able to read concerning the SD9VE. Earlier, when I questioned the earlier post, I did not knoww hat the Apex trigger kit was for. You have explained that well. I changee out the trigger on a S&W gun that I own by one my by the TK people and saw a remarkable differrence in the pull weight. You've made the gun very attractive. I appreciate your explanation.

[Gadfly]

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Used M&P .40 for $259
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Used M&P 9 for $309
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Used M&P 9 for $319 (very good condition, with good night sights)
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Used M&P 9 for $299 (with 3 mags and they will finance for $24 per month....)
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Used P320 in .40 for $429
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Used Glock 23 gen 4 in .40 for $359 (for glocks in .40, the Gen 4 holds up better than the gen 3)
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Used Glock 22 Gen 4 in .40 for $359
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Beretta PX4 Storm in .40 for $309
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You get the general ideal here. Price is not a limiting factor when you can get a reliable, proven handgun for under $400 ALL DAY LONG....